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Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170988] Fri, 21 July 2017 15:35 Go to next message
SMD111
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2011
Junior Member
The problem I have is described in the attached images (they are zoom-able).
I have a finalized, fully routed design:
[brd1]
At some point I decided to add a new gate to the schematic, so I copy IC5 and paste it as IC9. Please note that no connections on IC9 have been made yet:
[sch-1]
Simply placing this gate on schematic causes significant changes on the board. As you can see, multiple nets become ripped up, even the nets that have nothing to do with IC5 or IC9.
[brd-2]
Is it possible to avoid this effect?
Thank you,
Sergey

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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170990 is a reply to message #170988] Fri, 21 July 2017 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob Pearce
Messages: 484
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
On 21/07/17 16:35, SMD111 wrote:
> The problem I have is described in the attached images (they are zoom-able).
> I have a finalized, fully routed design:
> [brd1]

In what sense is that "fully routed"? The tiny schematic fragment
clearly shows C5 connected to the power pins of two ICs but on that
board it's only connected to a jumper. It's blatantly not complete.

> At some point I decided to add a new gate to the schematic, so I copy IC5 and paste it as IC9. Please note that no connections on IC9 have been made yet:
> [sch-1]
> Simply placing this gate on schematic causes significant changes on the board. As you can see, multiple nets become ripped up, even the nets that have nothing to do with IC5 or IC9.
> [brd-2]

No changes to the board, no nets ripped up, merely the airwires have
been turned on.

> Is it possible to avoid this effect?

Yes, by starting with an actually completely routed board.
Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170991 is a reply to message #170990] Fri, 21 July 2017 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SMD111
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2011
Junior Member
*No thanks for "blatantly" obnoxious response, but I owe you a reply.*

+In what sense is that "fully routed"?+
*In that sense that is shown on the first picture. This board has been in production for years.*
++

+The tiny schematic fragment+
*Oh, would you want to see the entire schematic? Bummer, it is proprietary!*

+clearly shows C5 connected to the power pins of two ICs but on that+
+board it's only connected to a jumper. It's blatantly not complete.+
*C5 is connected to inner power supply layers, FYI.*

+No changes to the board, no nets ripped up, merely the airwires have been turned on.+
*The rip up procedure converts a routed trace to an airwire.
*
*If you can't see the difference between the first and the second board pictures, please don't bother polluting this forum.*

+Yes, by starting with an actually completely routed board.+
*It looks like you are also unfamiliar with the term "routing"*


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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170992 is a reply to message #170991] Fri, 21 July 2017 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob Pearce
Messages: 484
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
On 21/07/17 19:31, SMD111 wrote:
> *No thanks for "blatantly" obnoxious response, but I owe you a reply.*
>
Merely pointing out what I see. It's only obnoxious if you choose to be
offended by the truth.

> +In what sense is that "fully routed"?+
> *In that sense that is shown on the first picture. This board has been in production for years.*
> ++

As I said, the image clearly shows it's not routed. It may well have
been in production for years but not from that layout if it ever worked.
Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170993 is a reply to message #170992] Fri, 21 July 2017 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SMD111
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2011
Junior Member
+"As I said, the image clearly shows it's not routed. It may well have+
+been in production for years but not from that layout if it ever worked."+

*This discussion is going nowhere. Let us stop this nonsense.*

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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170995 is a reply to message #170988] Fri, 21 July 2017 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warrenbrayshaw
Messages: 1767
Registered: January 2010
Location: New Zealand
Senior Member
On 22/07/2017 3:35 a.m., SMD111 wrote:
> The problem I have is described in the attached images (they are zoom-able).
> I have a finalized, fully routed design:
> [brd1]
> At some point I decided to add a new gate to the schematic, so I copy IC5 and paste it as IC9. Please note that no connections on IC9 have been made yet:
> [sch-1]
> Simply placing this gate on schematic causes significant changes on the board. As you can see, multiple nets become ripped up, even the nets that have nothing to do with IC5 or IC9.
> [brd-2]
> Is it possible to avoid this effect?
> Thank you,
> Sergey
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> https://www.element14.com/community/message/225828
>


Hi Sergey

It's important to say which version of Eagle you are using.

I use v7.7 (Win7) and can demonstrate I don't have your problem.
Using the example Schem/Board Hexapod I can copy a device in the
schematic and it appears without air-wires on the board, ready to be
placed. The rest of the board remains unaltered.

It may be the technique you are using to copy the part (ah! maybe the v8
select mechanism has caught you out). I simply right click on the symbol
(IC5) and select copy from the context menu. Then you will only have the
IC stuck to the cursor and no nets connected to the pins.


HTH
Warren
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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #170996 is a reply to message #170995] Fri, 21 July 2017 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SMD111
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2011
Junior Member
Hi Warren, thank you for replying.

I have EAGLE 6.4.0 Professional. It is old, but I like "good old" things :-)

And for copying, I just select the copy mode on the toolbar, then click on the gate, then the IC is duplicated and stuck to cursor, then I place it with a click. After that I press "Switch to board" button and see airwires in some places where traces used to be.

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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #171000 is a reply to message #170996] Sat, 22 July 2017 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warrenbrayshaw
Messages: 1767
Registered: January 2010
Location: New Zealand
Senior Member
On 22/07/2017 8:14 a.m., SMD111 wrote:
> Hi Warren, thank you for replying.
>
> I have EAGLE 6.4.0 Professional. It is old, but I like "good old" things :-)
>

I recommend downloading the last version 6 release which is 6.6 from here

ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/

There were worthwhile fixes and added functionality in v6.5. and v6.6
I seem to remember 6.4 as being particularly not good.

Hopefully you still have your licence keys etc. If not you can get them
again from Autodesk support.

HTH
Warren




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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #171001 is a reply to message #170996] Sat, 22 July 2017 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warrenbrayshaw
Messages: 1767
Registered: January 2010
Location: New Zealand
Senior Member
On 22/07/2017 8:14 a.m., SMD111 wrote:
> Hi Warren, thank you for replying.
>
> I have EAGLE 6.4.0 Professional. It is old, but I like "good old" things :-)
>
> And for copying, I just select the copy mode on the toolbar, then click on the gate, then the IC is duplicated and stuck to cursor, then I place it with a click. After that I press "Switch to board" button and see airwires in some places where traces used to be.
>
> --
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>

The problem could be the following if the board is from a version prior
to v6.

The following is copied from the release notes (UPDATE_en.txt) which
comes with Eagle.

* Supply layers:

- Supply layers (i.e. layers with names that start with a '$') are no
longer treated special. Layers for supply signals now need to be
realized using signal polygons.

- When a board drawing from an older version of EAGLE is loaded, any
supply layers it contains will be renamed by moving the '$' to the end
of the name. This makes sure automated scripts that treat a supply layer
as "negative" don't make a mistake, while still indicating that layer as
having been a supply layer. The functionality of the supply layer is
replaced by a signal polygon with the proper name, using the minimum
wire width from the net class of that signal. The polygon is drawn into
the former supply layer as a rectangular shape, covering the area
defined by any wires in the Dimension layer, by pads or by vias. The
Autorouter setup is modified in such a way that the layer containing the
generated polygon is activated (with preferred direction '*'), and the
costs for that layer set to 99 in all passes.

VERY IMPORTANT:

After updating a board with supply layers from an older version, make
sure you run the RATSNEST command to verify whether all pads are still
connected to the respective signal.


HTH
Warren
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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #171013 is a reply to message #170988] Mon, 24 July 2017 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Leikvoll
Messages: 1351
Registered: November 2007
Senior Member
On 21.07.2017 17:35, SMD111 wrote:
> The problem I have is described in the attached images (they are zoom-able).
> I have a finalized, fully routed design:
> [brd1]
> At some point I decided to add a new gate to the schematic, so I copy IC5 and paste it as IC9. Please note that no connections on IC9 have been made yet:
> [sch-1]
> Simply placing this gate on schematic causes significant changes on the board. As you can see, multiple nets become ripped up, even the nets that have nothing to do with IC5 or IC9.
> [brd-2]
> Is it possible to avoid this effect?
> Thank you,
> Sergey

Isn't this the simple effect that filled new (implicit) nets gets an
airwire as you present a new gate with implicit power?
Pressing ratsnest should leave you with only the airwires for IC9?
Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #171148 is a reply to message #171000] Wed, 02 August 2017 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SMD111
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2011
Junior Member
Hi Warren,
thanks again for your support and advise.
I was able to solve this problem, and would like to share with you how I did it.
This is a 4-layer board with the inner layers being VCC and GND. There are power supply traces ob both sides, too.
I usually keep the inner layers hidden (there is nothing to see there). So I accidentally discovered that having them hidden was the reason of EAGLE behavior as I described: all routed power traces get converted to airwires. However, if I make the power layers visible, then copy and place the new gate, all existing power traces stay preserved and only the new gate has airwires from its power pins to the nearest points corresponding to VCC and GND nets. This state does not change after I hide the inner layers again.
BTW, this is another oddity that power pins of a new gate get airwired to supply nets automatically, even though the supply pins on the schematic are not invoked yet.

Best,
Sergey

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Re: Unexpected behavior of EAGLE layout editor [message #171149 is a reply to message #171013] Wed, 02 August 2017 17:25 Go to previous message
SMD111
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2011
Junior Member
> Isn't this the simple effect that filled new (implicit) nets gets an
> airwire as you present a new gate with implicit power?
Yes, and I believe it should not be so, because the power pins of the new gate are not yet invoked on schematic.
> Pressing ratsnest should leave you with only the airwires for IC9?
>
That was what I expected, but instead ALL power traces get converted to airwires, even without pressing the ratsnest.

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