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Home » CadSoft Support Forums » eagle.userchat.eng » Nightmarish AutoDesk 'support'
Nightmarish AutoDesk 'support' [message #169207] Thu, 02 February 2017 17:18 Go to next message
Andreas Weidner
Messages: 564
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
I'm at my wit's end and a complete nervous wreck because of AutoDesk's
strange 'support'. I would just like to get the following information:
- What is the nearest 'Autodesk Academic Value Added Reseller' to
Hannover, Germany? I want to get REAL contact data, please
(e.g., company name, street address, phone number, e-mail).
By some mysterious reason, the AutoDesk 'support' blatantly refuses to
give me that information.
- I do NOT want to get the internet address of the AutoDesk shop -
this doesn't sell Academic licenses, and I cannot ask the shop any
of my several questions, anyway.
- I do NOT want to get the internet address of AutoDesk's reseller
search - by some mysterious reason, this does not work for me,
because it stocially tells me that there is NO reseller in the
whole of Germany, which I simply cannot believe (EAGLE is a German
program).
If any of you can answer my question, please do so - thanks.

-----

And now, just for your reference, here a rendition of my extremely
unhealthy experiences with the so-called AutoDesk 'support', which is
anything BUT supportive. I would NEVER have thought that such
overwhelming stupidity and mindboggling ignorance could be possible for
a company like AutoDesk, but, sadly, I apparently was completely
mistaken. I decided to make the nightmarishly strange mailings available
in this post, in the hope that SOMEBODY from AutoDesk can do something
about it - AutoDesk 'support' obviously cannot.

Additionally, somebody might even have a good laugh at my increasingly
frantic (and futile) efforts to locate an appropriate Academic EAGLE
reseller...

-----

Our institute has a 30-user license of EAGLE. Initially, such a thing
cost about 6000,- EUR, but, since we have been using EAGLE for about 20
years (and I myself use it even longer), we only had to pay the UPDATE
price (50% discount). This we paid for every new version of EAGLE, which
happened, say, once every 3 years. Therefore, our 30-user licence cost
us around one thousand bucks a year, which is nice.

With the new license scheme, the price would rocket up: 30 Premium
licences (which we would need) for 648.55EUR each sum up to a whopping
TWENTY THOUSAND BUCKS A YEAR! Obviously, this factor-of-twenty price
increase is not acceptable for us, especially since our institute is a
non-profit organisation that gets most of its money from taxes.

Most of our users are students, which would probably get the version for
free (but can the free student version cope create boards that are
larger than those in the 'Standard' version? I could not find that
information anywhere), but other people are not. Additionally, we have
PhD students, Post-Docs etc., and it is completely unclear whether or
not those are entitled to free versions. Therefore, I decided to phone
AutoDesk support Germany:

1. The support guy was friendly and sympathised with our dislike
of a price increase by a factor of 20 and promised to look into
that matter.

2. After a short time, I got a return call in which he told me that
it COULD be that our institute would PERHAPS be eligible for free
licences, but he couldn't say for sure, and he would need to 'open
a case' with Education support, so that they can inform us about
the possibility of getting educational licenses. His original
(German) answer was:
'Sehr geehrter Herr Andreas Weidner,
Vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.
Ich habe das Ticket Nr. <number> für Sie eröffnet und werde
Ihre Kontaktdaten an das Team "Education" weitergeben.
Die Kollegen vom Team Education werden mit Ihnen Kontakt
aufzunehmen, um über die Möglichkeit Education Lizenzen
einzusetzten zu besprechen.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,'
So far, so good - sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, now it slowly
but surely started to deteriorate. Some English-speaking support
wrote:
'Dear Andreas Weidner,
Thank you for contacting Autodesk.
Eagle product is available only for use by students and educators
on the Education Community website. This product is not available
for Educational Institutions for download through the Education
Community website.
If you want to download the product for your Institution then you
will have to purchase from an Autodesk Academic Value Added
Reseller.
To locate a reseller, go to:
http://autodesk.com/reseller <http://autodesk.com/reseller>
Hope this helps.
Thank you and have a nice day!'

3. Unfortunately, that Internet page didn't work for me, because by
some reason, it told me that there was NO reseller in Germany at all
(no reseller within 1000km distance from Hanover, Germany). This
might have been a web page or browser problem, so I made a
screenshot to show that the reseller search really didn't work,
and wrote back:
'thanks for the info. Unfortunately, it does NOT help:
- Your very strange reseller search tells me that there is NO
reseller available in Germany (1000km distance from Hanover).
This is of course rubbish - see the attached screen shot.
Since your web page doesn't work properly, I would ask YOU to
send me the contact data of the nearest Autodesk Academic Value
Added Reseller - thanks.
With best regards,
Andreas Weidner
PS: WHY is it so excruciatingly difficult to get price and
reseller information from Autodesk? I asked CadSoft - they told
me to contact Autodesk. I asked Autodesk Germany - they send the
case to America. You told me to open a web page - which doesn't
work. Frustrating...'
This was answered as follows:
'Hello Andreas,
We apologize for the inconvenience caused to you.
This helpline is setup only to answer the questions pertaining to
the download, installation and activation of the products
available on Education Community website.
We request you to contact our Autodesk Representative using this
link (http://www.autodesk.com/company/contact-us) to resolve your
query.
Hope this helps!
Best regards,'

4. This just links to the default AutoDesk site, with NO special
information on how to resolve my problem. The only thing I could
have done was try to use the reseller search, which just doesn't
work. Therefore, I wrote back, quite irritated:
'NO, IT DOES NOT! In my last e-mail I specifically told that this
link does NOT work with me, because it doesn't find any
representative in the whole of Germany (see the attached screen
shot again - which I just cannot believe)!
Since your link does NOT work, please send me the contact data of
the nearest Autodesk Academic Value Added Reseller. Please NO
LINK, but VALID contact data with street address, phone number
and e-mail address. Thanks.
If you don't tell me where to buy your software (but keep
sending me internet links that don't work), I obviously cannot
buy it...
Very frustrated,
Andreas Weidner'
Which resulted in the answer:
'Dear Andreas Weidner,
If you cannot find the re seller then please buy/purchase the
product from the Autodesk store on the below link..
http://www.autodesk.de/store
We hope this helps.'
But that shop does NOT sell academic licenses!

5. Furious now, I wrote:
'NO, as usual with Autodesk 'support', it does NOT:
- Your shop is no use for academic purchases, as Autodesk was so
kind to inform me the first time I tried.
- Your reseller search form does NOT work, either. I KNOW that
there is a reseller somewhere in Germany, but your search form
tells me none.
*** WILL YOU NOW FINALLY TELL ME THE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR AN
'AUTODESK ACADEMIC VALUE ADDED RESELLER' THAT CAN SELL US 'EAGLE
PREMIUM' IN GERMANY (PREFERABLY NEAR HANNOVER), OR DO YOU STILL
BLATANTLY REFUSE TO TELL YOUR CUSTOMERS WHERE TO BUY YOUR
PRODUCTS? ***
Completely furious,
Andreas Weidner
PS: NEVER, EVER in my life have I encountered a 'support' this
bad! Why the heck do I need to make three phone calls and send
five e-mails, and STILL don't know how to buy your software? Your
company DOES deal in software, or has this changedat some time?'
The answer was:
'Hello Andreas,
We are sorry for the inconvenience caused to you.
We request you to please purchase the product from the Autodesk
store on the below link..
http://www.autodesk.de/store
We hope this helps.
Thank you!
Best regards,'

I get the overwhelming impression that
- the support personnel is stupid, and/or
- the support personnel doesn't read my questions, and/or
- the support personnel just ignores my questions, and/or
- that I myself cracked up at some point along the way...
Anyway, I now gave up trying to get anything out of this 'support'.
That's not a support, but a booby hatch!

What I simply cannot even BEGIN to understand is WHY the English
AutoDesk support refuses to tell me an Academic reseller. Shouldn't it
be in the interest of a software company to sell their products?

In the next days, I'll probably contact the GERMAN support by phone
again (the only guy that was helpful), ask THEM for an address, and
plead with them for valid contact data WITHOUT going through English
support, because that way complete madness lies...

Utterly bewildered,
Andreas Weidner
Re: Nightmarish AutoDesk 'support' [message #169211 is a reply to message #169207] Thu, 02 February 2017 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
Hi Andreas,

I am so happy to hear from you, but I'm so sad that you have had to go
through all of that. Right now EAGLE still hasn't penetrated all of the
various departments in Autodesk because we are so new.

I think I can get you out of this situation.

Autodesk is very generous to educational institutions so here is the
rundown.

- All students get EAGLE premium licenses(These are what we used to call
Pro licenses 16 layers, 4mx4m board size) for free for 3 years. They
simply have to sign up at students.autodesk.com (or the german
equivalent of that site).

-Universities that had a previous CadSoft Educational license can go to
http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/eagle and obtain their
free 3 year educational license. The IT Lab coordinator will need to
install EAGLE in each computer, but the individual students would need
to create accounts so they can use when they are in the lab.

I'm taking over your case and I'll be sending you an e-mail with this
info that way this is recorded in the official channels.

You don't have to pay for EAGLE anymore because you are an educational
institution.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. I'll also
have Richard on the case so that he can give you more localized
assistance. If this resolves the situation please just send me a quick
reply to the e-mail I've sent you so that I can close the case. Or
respond here either one is OK.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

--
We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>
Re: Nightmarish AutoDesk 'support' [message #169237 is a reply to message #169211] Fri, 03 February 2017 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chuck Huber
Messages: 593
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
Jorge and Richard to the rescue!

Good work, guys.

However, the price of Eagle for Andreas is pretty much the exception.
It he were NOT educational, he would be facing $20,000/year instead of
1,000 every two or three years.

As for myself and my company, I'm sticking with V7 and won't upgrade.
I'll milk it along as long as I can (a decade or so?), which probably
means that I'll have to keep a set of 64-bit machines around for the
task. Oh, the pains of having to downgrade from a 256-bit machine will
be nearly intolerable! Of course, there's always the option of using a
64-bit VM. But who know what a decade or two will bring?

I'll continue to monitor these newsgroups (not the forums... the
newsgroups) in hopes that Autodesk will sell Eagle to a party interested
in sensible licensing - perhaps someone like FSF. There are companies
that thrive on open source. Oracle (MySql), RedHat, Novell (OpenSuse),
are just a few.

In the hands of Autodesk, I seriously doubt that they would even
consider open-sourcing Eagle.

Enjoy,
- Chuck


On 02/02/2017 12:54 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> I am so happy to hear from you, but I'm so sad that you have had to go
> through all of that. Right now EAGLE still hasn't penetrated all of
> the various departments in Autodesk because we are so new.
>
> I think I can get you out of this situation.
>
> Autodesk is very generous to educational institutions so here is the
> rundown.
>
> - All students get EAGLE premium licenses(These are what we used to
> call Pro licenses 16 layers, 4mx4m board size) for free for 3 years.
> They simply have to sign up at students.autodesk.com (or the german
> equivalent of that site).
>
> -Universities that had a previous CadSoft Educational license can go
> to http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/eagle and obtain
> their free 3 year educational license. The IT Lab coordinator will
> need to install EAGLE in each computer, but the individual students
> would need to create accounts so they can use when they are in the lab.
>
> I'm taking over your case and I'll be sending you an e-mail with this
> info that way this is recorded in the official channels.
>
> You don't have to pay for EAGLE anymore because you are an educational
> institution.
>
> Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. I'll
> also have Richard on the case so that he can give you more localized
> assistance. If this resolves the situation please just send me a quick
> reply to the e-mail I've sent you so that I can close the case. Or
> respond here either one is OK.
>
> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jorge Garcia
>
Re: Nightmarish AutoDesk 'support' [message #169239 is a reply to message #169211] Fri, 03 February 2017 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Weidner
Messages: 564
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
Hello Jorge,

Am 02.02.2017 um 18:54 schrieb Jorge Garcia:
> I think I can get you out of this situation.

I'm glad to read that decent EAGLE support is still available, even if
not through the 'official' AutoDesk support channels (where the
boneheads reside). Thanks for taking charge of that.

> Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions with the new licensing
scheme and our educational situation. Since those questions are quite
special because of our unique institute status here, this newsgroup is
perhaps the wrong place for me pestering you with detailed questions.

Should I reply to your AutoDesk ticket, or send you a direct mail?
Anyway, I will not find the time to ask my questions today, but probably
Monday...

Cheers, and have a nice weekend,
Andreas
Re: Nightmarish AutoDesk 'support' [message #169250 is a reply to message #169239] Fri, 03 February 2017 20:08 Go to previous message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 2/3/2017 10:05 AM, Andreas Weidner wrote:
> Hello Jorge,
>
> Am 02.02.2017 um 18:54 schrieb Jorge Garcia:
>> I think I can get you out of this situation.
>
> I'm glad to read that decent EAGLE support is still available, even if
> not through the 'official' AutoDesk support channels (where the
> boneheads reside). Thanks for taking charge of that.
>
>> Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
>
> There are still a lot of unanswered questions with the new licensing
> scheme and our educational situation. Since those questions are quite
> special because of our unique institute status here, this newsgroup is
> perhaps the wrong place for me pestering you with detailed questions.
>
> Should I reply to your AutoDesk ticket, or send you a direct mail?
> Anyway, I will not find the time to ask my questions today, but probably
> Monday...
>
> Cheers, and have a nice weekend,
> Andreas


Hi Andreas,

Reply to the Autodesk ticket e-mail I sent and that will go to me, that
way I can keep an official record.. To call them boneheads is unfair,
it's not their fault they haven't received training on EAGLE. I've been
working with some them and they legitimately want to help, at this
moment they just don't know how to handle EAGLE cases.

As time goes on they'll know to bring us into the loop and even now this
already starting to happen.

I understand the frustration though because I've been there(going in
circles and not seeming to get anywhere). Thank you for reaching out.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

--
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