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Eagle license [message #168934] Wed, 25 January 2017 09:51 Go to next message
thierry pottier
Messages: 4
Registered: June 2016
Junior Member
Hello.
It is a lot of discutiuon about this new license cost.
it is month or year to get the last update version.
ok but if you stop to paid can you use the last paid version to work after periode?
Before the update was after 3 years +- and about same price but ifyou must paid every year it is expensive.
Thierry

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Re: Eagle license [message #168935 is a reply to message #168934] Wed, 25 January 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Langbridge
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2017
Junior Member
Bien le bonjour!

That is the question here. I'm on Eagle 7.7, and even if I cheat a little (I have a teacher's licence), I know that I can use my schematics even a few years later. I'm interested in Eagle 8, but some people don't want to switch for the new licence system. What if you create all your work, and the you can no longer access them? The argument is currently on-going from what I can tell, people have asked to be able to at least have read-only rights on the work they have created.

The new licence is good: If you only need to create boards for 3 months, then only pay for 3 months. In the end, it saves people like me lots of money.
The new licence is bad: Some of the people here (mainly the top members) have their own company, and if they can't access what they have created for whatever reason (if ever the software company goes down, don't laugh, it has happened), then they lose their work, with potentially disastrous results.

Wait a few days, there should be more answers soon.

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Re: Eagle license [message #168940 is a reply to message #168935] Wed, 25 January 2017 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> thierry pottier wrote:
>
> it is month or year to get the last update version.
You have options of monthly, or 1, 2 or 3 years for the subscription period and the average annual cost goes down with longer subscription periods.

> thierry pottier wrote:
>
> ok but if you stop to paid can you use the last paid version to work after period?
No, if you stop you subscription then you will no longer have entitlement to the full capabilities of the version you paid for. I believe the software will revert to the freeware license in this situation so you will still be able to view your designs and run CAM jobs etc but you will only be able to edit within the capabilities of the freeware licence.

> thierry pottier wrote:
>
> Before the update was after 3 years +- and about same price but ifyou must paid every year it is expensive.
Yes, depending on how you use EAGLE and what license you had previously for some it would work out more, some less.

There are now options for monthly, or 1, 2 or 3 years. The longer the subscription you take the lower the average annual cost becomes.

There are some improvements in the licensing coming. The main one being in the next release which I believe is due out soon, the Standard edition will have it's layer count increased to 4-layers instead of just 2-layers. I think having a way to allow 6-layers would be beneficial for a lot of people.

Another improvement is that the size restriction is now based on board area rather than the fixed dimensions of 100mm x 160mm of the previous versions. This opens up the possibility of taller or wider boards so long as they still fitted within the restrictions of the overall board area.

An idea I had was the concept of "maximum routing area" in which it would be possible to trade board area for layers and vice versa. That way you could have a smaller board with more layers or a larger board with less layers so long as the total routing area stayed within the limit of the equivalent routing area of a 160cm^2 4-layer board. I don't know if there would be other implications for this though so they may need to add in additional scaling factors in the trade off between area and layers. I guess this is one to put to Autodesk and see what they think.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Eagle license [message #168944 is a reply to message #168940] Wed, 25 January 2017 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geralds
Messages: 220
Registered: February 2014
Senior Member
>
>> thierry pottier wrote:
>>
>> ok but if you stop to paid can you use the last paid version to work after period?
> No, if you stop you subscription then you will no longer have entitlement to the full capabilities of the version you paid for. I believe the software will revert to the freeware license in this situation so you will still be able to view your designs and run CAM jobs etc but you will only be able to edit within the capabilities of the freeware licence.
Hi Rachael,

wow,...
No?!!! If so, as you explained, then there will be an absolut catastrophic situation like "Tschernobyls atomic explosion" !
Then in this meaning AutoDesk says to its customers: "pay or kill your company!"

That would be a punishment of loyal customers and absolute extortion!
What I can believe is, that the license period ends and thereafter with the latest current state of the software updates that you can work with.

Yesterday i thought the same about and wanted to asking here.
Well the TO was a little bit faster writing this question.

So i hope the AutoDesk support reads this thread.

Best Regards
Gerald
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Re: Eagle license [message #168945 is a reply to message #168944] Wed, 25 January 2017 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>
>>
>>> thierry pottier wrote:
>>>
>>> ok but if you stop to paid can you use the last paid version to work after period?
>> No, if you stop you subscription then you will no longer have entitlement to the full capabilities of the version you paid for. I believe the software will revert to the freeware license in this situation so you will still be able to view your designs and run CAM jobs etc but you will only be able to edit within the capabilities of the freeware licence.
> Hi Rachael,
>
> wow,...
> No?!!! If so, as you explained, then there will be an absolut catastrophic situation like "Tschernobyls atomic explosion" !
Hi Gerald,

This is how I believe it to be but I don't work for Autodesk, I am just a user like yourself so cannot say 100% for sure. Maybe wait until Jorge or Richard are online to confirm one way or another if this statement is now causing panic...

My statement is referring to v8 and onwards only of course. Any existing earlier versions prior to going subscription will continue to work.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Eagle license [message #168946 is a reply to message #168945] Wed, 25 January 2017 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Langbridge
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2017
Junior Member
Like Rachel, I'm not connected, and not sure of the situation. That being said, I am already in that sort of situation. I don't "own" Microsoft Office (well, I do, but a 2003 version). I'm renting their software, for 10€ a month I can install Office on the 5 family computers. They day I stop paying, that's it, no more editing. In a way, we don't care as much, since we can open Word files (or at least access the contents) in other programs like Libreoffice. However, they day I did have a licence problem (caused by me, not by Microsoft), then everything turned to read-only. I could still access my files, I could print, but no editing, and no saving. Enough for me to contact clients and let me work through the day, until I managed to update my licence, then everything turned to read-write. You can install Office without a licence, you just need access to the installer. You can run it without a licence, you just won't be able to do anything with it. That isn't documented, and while I don't rely on Eagle for the business I run, I do rely on Office, and I would have liked this information to be available; what happens if the world ends? That is what seems to worry people with Eagle. The best way, I suppose, is to try the kill switch and see what happens. I can't, I have a problem with my licence, but once that is sorted out, I'll try.

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Re: Eagle license [message #168947 is a reply to message #168945] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antti Louko
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2007
Junior Member
rachaelp wrote:

> My statement is referring to v8 and onwards only of course. Any existing earlier versions prior to going subscription will continue to work.

Eagle users have been used to the old licensing model and it has been the very
strong point of Eagle.

I would be quite happy if one year subscription would include old style license
locked to the major version of the relevant major version. This would encourage
Autodesk to keep developing Eagle and make Eagle more affordable _in reality_,
not just in some "Alternate Reality". Of course this might be less than
Autodesk now expects to get with the current model, but it certainly would be
more than current fiasco, when its effects come to reality in lack of subscriptions.
Re: Eagle license [message #168948 is a reply to message #168945] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CadSoft Support
Messages: 539
Registered: September 2006
Senior Member
On 25.01.2017 12:46, rachaelp wrote:
>> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> thierry pottier wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ok but if you stop to paid can you use the last paid version to work after period?
>>> No, if you stop you subscription then you will no longer have entitlement to the full capabilities of the version you paid for. I believe the software will revert to the freeware license in this situation so you will still be able to view your designs and run CAM jobs etc but you will only be able to edit within the capabilities of the freeware licence.
>> Hi Rachael,
>>
>> wow,...
>> No?!!! If so, as you explained, then there will be an absolut catastrophic situation like "Tschernobyls atomic explosion" !
> Hi Gerald,
>
> This is how I believe it to be but I don't work for Autodesk, I am just a user like yourself so cannot say 100% for sure. Maybe wait until Jorge or Richard are online to confirm one way or another if this statement is now causing panic...
>
> My statement is referring to v8 and onwards only of course. Any existing earlier versions prior to going subscription will continue to work.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rachael
>
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Hi,

Rachael is correct. As soon as you decide to stop the subscription
your entitlement will end and EAGLE will be useable as Free edition.
So you will be able to create manufacturing data, print it, cerate bills
of materials....and so on. Yo can edit your projects within the
limits of the Free license. This all is valid for V8 onwards.

Earlier licenses are perpetual licenses. You have you license file and
personal installation code and can work with it.

--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards
Richard Hammerl -- EAGLE Support
Re: Eagle license [message #168949 is a reply to message #168944] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>
> What you here say, i hope i understand you: "Standard" ... "what is standard?"" - well...
> Past since with the Eagle 6 version the standard was a PCB with dimension of 160x100 mm with up to 6 layers.
>
> !! Now, the standard is a PCB with 160x100mm with 2 layers.
> Wow, what a retrograde step!
I agree that the 2-layer restriction was way too low. Autodesk agree and the next release will increase this to 4-layers I believe.

Earlier versions of EAGLE before v8 had the 160mm x 100mm restriction in the dimensions. v8 changes this to the equivalent area so you can have any dimension of board you like so long as it fits within 160 square cm. This is a definite improvement I think.

The final bit from where you quoted me was a further extension idea I had that I think they could do and I think it would solve a lot of issues if it went a step further to be "maximum routing area".

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Eagle license [message #168950 is a reply to message #168948] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Langbridge
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2017
Junior Member
And that has to be the clearest answer I've read. Spot on, and answers the worries that I had. No licence, no edition, but I can still use my files. Thanks for the answer, Richard!

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Re: Eagle license [message #168953 is a reply to message #168950] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geralds
Messages: 220
Registered: February 2014
Senior Member
Yes, i thought too.
But you cannot reroute the wires if something was wrong on your PCB after expiring the license period.

This means: "close your company".

Gerald
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Re: Eagle license [message #168955 is a reply to message #168953] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Stevens
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2008
Member
I believe Richard also mentioned this:

"So you will be able to create manufacturing data, print it, cerate bills of materials....and so on. Yo can edit your
projects within the limits of the Free license."

I'm using the free version of V8 to evaluate it and I can edit any of my V6.6 designs that fit within the limits of the
free version.

Eric

On 01/25/2017 07:38 AM, Gerald Schwarz wrote:
> Yes, i thought too.
> But you cannot reroute the wires if something was wrong on your PCB after expiring the license period.
>
> This means: "close your company".
>
> Gerald
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Re: Eagle license [message #168956 is a reply to message #168953] Wed, 25 January 2017 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>
> Yes, i thought too.
> But you cannot reroute the wires if something was wrong on your PCB after expiring the license period.
>
> This means: "close your company".
You could always get a 1 month subscription to make your updates if you needed to make a change once you no longer needed a full time active subscription.

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Re: Eagle license [message #168959 is a reply to message #168956] Wed, 25 January 2017 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tilmann Reh
Messages: 2068
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
rachaelp schrieb:

>> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>>
>> Yes, i thought too. But you cannot reroute the wires if something
>> was wrong on your PCB after expiring the license period.
>>
>> This means: "close your company".
> You could always get a 1 month subscription to make your updates if
> you needed to make a change once you no longer needed a full time
> active subscription.

....provided that AutoDesk still runs the license server (and you can
access it) when you need it ten years later.

It's the method that sucks.
I simply won't accept that, and obviously I'm not alone.

Tilmann
Re: Eagle license [message #168960 is a reply to message #168949] Wed, 25 January 2017 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geralds
Messages: 220
Registered: February 2014
Senior Member
Hi,
> I agree that the 2-layer restriction was way too low. Autodesk agree and the next release will increase this to 4-layers I believe.
>
>
Why not immediately?

>
> Earlier versions of EAGLE before v8 had the 160mm x 100mm restriction in the dimensions. v8 changes this to the equivalent area so you can have any dimension of board you like so long as it fits within 160 square cm. This is a definite improvement I think.
>
The calculation with the Quadrat cm was also in the earlier versions, even in the free version:
(Eagle V5.12 free; smaller 5mm, bigger 8mm diameter; PIC10F206 with dual-color_LED)
[sonnepcb (Small).png]
>
> The final bit from where you quoted me was a further extension idea I had that I think they could do and I think it would solve a lot of issues if it went a step further to be "maximum routing area".
>
Yes, I agree.

In another thread a few days ago, I spoke of "why pay 16sqm if you never needed that".
I suggested that, for example, 4m² - a quarter of it with up to 16 layers could use as a customized license
Because, this 4sqm I think use the world's most users.

This would be a real advance in the standard. Because other CAD programs have 1sqm as standard, minimum!

Now we will see what the future holds.


Best Regards,
Gerald
---

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Re: Eagle license [message #168962 is a reply to message #168959] Wed, 25 January 2017 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> CadSoft Guest wrote:
>
> ...provided that AutoDesk still runs the license server (and you can
> access it) when you need it ten years later.
>
> It's the method that sucks.
> I simply won't accept that, and obviously I'm not alone.
>
> Tilmann
>
I agree that there is some area for concern here. Hopefully Autodesk are listening and can come up with a solution that will solve this. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Eagle license [message #168969 is a reply to message #168947] Wed, 25 January 2017 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 181
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On 25.01.2017 13:03, Antti Louko wrote:

> I would be quite happy if one year subscription would include old style license
> locked to the major version of the relevant major version. This would encourage
> Autodesk to keep developing Eagle and make Eagle more affordable _in reality_,
> not just in some "Alternate Reality". Of course this might be less than
> Autodesk now expects to get with the current model, but it certainly would be
> more than current fiasco, when its effects come to reality in lack of subscriptions.
>

Count me in...
Re: Eagle license [message #169110 is a reply to message #168959] Mon, 30 January 2017 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Grzegorz Zalot
Messages: 712
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member
Tilmann,

>> You could always get a 1 month subscription to make your updates if
>> you needed to make a change once you no longer needed a full time
>> active subscription.
>
> ...provided that AutoDesk still runs the license server (and you can
> access it) when you need it ten years later.

Exactly !

> It's the method that sucks.
> I simply won't accept that, and obviously I'm not alone.

Sure, me too.

BR
--
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complex ltd.
office tel/fax : +48 32 2505840
mobil : +48 501 301515

http://www.complex.org.pl/
Re: Eagle license [message #169113 is a reply to message #168948] Mon, 30 January 2017 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Morrison
Messages: 1129
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member

CadSoft Support wrote on Wed, 25 January 2017 12:12
On 25.01.2017 12:46, rachaelp wrote:
>> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> thierry pottier wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ok but if you stop to paid can you use the last paid version to work after period?
>>> No, if you stop you subscription then you will no longer have entitlement to the full capabilities of the version you paid for. I believe the software will revert to the freeware license in this situation so you will still be able to view your designs and run CAM jobs etc but you will only be able to edit within the capabilities of the freeware licence.
>> Hi Rachael,
>>
>> wow,...
>> No?!!! If so, as you explained, then there will be an absolut catastrophic situation like "Tschernobyls atomic explosion" !
> Hi Gerald,
>
> This is how I believe it to be but I don't work for Autodesk, I am just a user like yourself so cannot say 100% for sure. Maybe wait until Jorge or Richard are online to confirm one way or another if this statement is now causing panic...
>
> My statement is referring to v8 and onwards only of course. Any existing earlier versions prior to going subscription will continue to work.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rachael
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> https://www.element14.com/community/message/214203
>

Hi,

Rachael is correct. As soon as you decide to stop the subscription
your entitlement will end and EAGLE will be useable as Free edition.
So you will be able to create manufacturing data, print it, cerate bills
of materials....and so on. Yo can edit your projects within the
limits of the Free license. This all is valid for V8 onwards.

Earlier licenses are perpetual licenses. You have you license file and
personal installation code and can work with it.


Hello Richard, good to hear from you.

The only issue with your statement above is that the free version of EAGLE doesn't allow for commercial use. So for Autodesk to say that you can fall back to edit within the bounds of the Free edition license is meaningless if it's a commercial project. Let's face it, most people who care about having to edit a design 15 years in the future in the exact version that the design was created in are professionals. PROFESSIONALS CAN NEVER USE THE FREE LICENSE if they honour the license. So this suggestion that they can somehow fall back to it is absurd and it frankly surprises me that Autodesk, who seems determined to enforce a new licensing scheme, would suggest that it's OK for commercial entities to use the non-commercial license.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Matt on my suggestion on a tweak to the current licensing scheme that would work for professionals.

Cheers,

James.


James Morrison ~~~ Stratford Digital
http://www.stratforddigital.ca
Re: Eagle license [message #169130 is a reply to message #168959] Tue, 31 January 2017 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hans Lederer
Messages: 297
Registered: June 2008
Senior Member
Am 25.01.2017 um 14:12 schrieb Tilmann Reh:
> rachaelp schrieb:
>
>>> Gerald Schwarz wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, i thought too. But you cannot reroute the wires if something
>>> was wrong on your PCB after expiring the license period.
>>>
>>> This means: "close your company".
>> You could always get a 1 month subscription to make your updates if
>> you needed to make a change once you no longer needed a full time
>> active subscription.
>
> ...provided that AutoDesk still runs the license server (and you can
> access it) when you need it ten years later.
>
> It's the method that sucks.
> I simply won't accept that, and obviously I'm not alone.
>
> Tilmann
>

Right! I will not accept this, too.
(4 licenses, starting to look for future alternatives.)

Hans
Re: Eagle license [message #169131 is a reply to message #168959] Tue, 31 January 2017 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
COMPACT
Messages: 54
Registered: May 2013
Member
Is it destined for the same fate as QuickCAD?

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Re: Eagle license [message #169132 is a reply to message #169130] Tue, 31 January 2017 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thierry pottier
Messages: 4
Registered: June 2016
Junior Member
Agree with you hans,
not acceptable and must see another CAD.
started to see kiCad.
but will missing the almost 20 years with eagle, started with 3.xx on diskett.
Thierry

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Re: Eagle license [message #169161 is a reply to message #169113] Wed, 01 February 2017 07:10 Go to previous message
Marco Trapanese
Messages: 297
Registered: May 2007
Senior Member
Il 30/01/2017 13:34, James Morrison ha scritto:

[previous quote]
>> Earlier licenses are perpetual licenses. You have you license file and
>> personal installation code and can work with it.

> The only issue with your statement above is that the free version of EAGLE
> doesn't allow for commercial use.

As far as I understand, he was talking about a PROFESSIONAL licence.
Because the freeware one doesn't have any installation code if I
remember correctly.

Marco
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