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EAGLE v8.0 Slice Command Doesn't Work on Group or From Command Line [message #168352] Thu, 19 January 2017 02:34 Go to next message
James Morrison
Messages: 1129
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member

This new slice command doesn't seem to work on grouped traces. I selected multiple traces with the group command and then applied the slice command to the group, but nothing happened.

Also, I can't invoke the slice command from the command line. I can start it but I can't feed it the parameters to actually do the command. So it required mouse use to function.

While I can appreciate new implicit commands give the user some flexibility by selecting the function first and then the object (like the slice command currently works), I strongly feel that the original mode of EAGLE functions should be maintained as well: select the function, then select the object or group of objects to apply the function to. And all of that should be completely functional from the command line.

In the many, many schematics and boards I've done this mode of operation (select function first then apply to object or group) has proven to be the most efficient method. And if I have to start to remember which commands work in which mode then that's going to start to become more and more confusing as new commands are added.

The beauty of EAGLE commands is the orthogonality and that everything can be scripted by using the command line.

James.


James Morrison ~~~ Stratford Digital
http://www.stratforddigital.ca
Re: EAGLE v8.0 Slice Command Doesn't Work on Group or From Command Line [message #168430 is a reply to message #168352] Thu, 19 January 2017 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1284
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/18/2017 9:34 PM, James Morrison wrote:
> This new slice command doesn't seem to work on grouped traces. I selected
> multiple traces with the group command and then applied the slice command
> to the group, but nothing happened.
>
> Also, I can't invoke the slice command from the command line. I can start
> it but I can't feed it the parameters to actually do the command. So it
> required mouse use to function.
>
> While I can appreciate new implicit commands give the user some flexibility
> by selecting the function first and then the object (like the slice command
> currently works), I strongly feel that the original mode of EAGLE functions
> should be maintained as well: select the function, then select the object
> or group of objects to apply the function to. And all of that should be
> completely functional from the command line.
>
> In the many, many schematics and boards I've done this mode of operation
> (select function first then apply to object or group) has proven to be the
> most efficient method. And if I have to start to remember which commands
> work in which mode then that's going to start to become more and more
> confusing as new commands are added.
>
> The beauty of EAGLE commands is the orthogonality and that everything can
> be scripted by using the command line.
>
> James.
>

Hi James,

I think you've misunderstood how the command works. You don't have to
select the traces in order to slice them.

Here's the basic workflow:
1. Click on the Slice icon.
2. Now you are going to define a slice line that runs through the traces
you wish to slice. Left click the first point of the line.
3. You'll notice that now you have line going from that point to your
mouse cursor. Left-click to define the second point.
4. Voila, you'll notice that the traces have been sliced following the
line you defined.

On the command line you can enter specific points for the slicing line
as well as how wide the gap should be.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: EAGLE v8.0 Slice Command Doesn't Work on Group or From Command Line [message #168433 is a reply to message #168430] Thu, 19 January 2017 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Stevens
Messages: 43
Registered: July 2008
Member
I believe James' question boils down to why can't I execute 'SLICE (x1 y1) (x2 y2) [width]'?

Eric

On 01/19/2017 01:34 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
> On 1/18/2017 9:34 PM, James Morrison wrote:
>> This new slice command doesn't seem to work on grouped traces. I selected
>> multiple traces with the group command and then applied the slice command
>> to the group, but nothing happened.
>>
>> Also, I can't invoke the slice command from the command line. I can start
>> it but I can't feed it the parameters to actually do the command. So it
>> required mouse use to function.
>>
>> While I can appreciate new implicit commands give the user some flexibility
>> by selecting the function first and then the object (like the slice command
>> currently works), I strongly feel that the original mode of EAGLE functions
>> should be maintained as well: select the function, then select the object
>> or group of objects to apply the function to. And all of that should be
>> completely functional from the command line.
>>
>> In the many, many schematics and boards I've done this mode of operation
>> (select function first then apply to object or group) has proven to be the
>> most efficient method. And if I have to start to remember which commands
>> work in which mode then that's going to start to become more and more
>> confusing as new commands are added.
>>
>> The beauty of EAGLE commands is the orthogonality and that everything can
>> be scripted by using the command line.
>>
>> James.
>>
>
> Hi James,
>
> I think you've misunderstood how the command works. You don't have to select the traces in order to slice them.
>
> Here's the basic workflow:
> 1. Click on the Slice icon.
> 2. Now you are going to define a slice line that runs through the traces you wish to slice. Left click the first point
> of the line.
> 3. You'll notice that now you have line going from that point to your mouse cursor. Left-click to define the second point.
> 4. Voila, you'll notice that the traces have been sliced following the line you defined.
>
> On the command line you can enter specific points for the slicing line as well as how wide the gap should be.
>
> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jorge Garcia
Re: EAGLE v8.0 Slice Command Doesn't Work on Group or From Command Line [message #168452 is a reply to message #168433] Thu, 19 January 2017 21:19 Go to previous message
James Morrison
Messages: 1129
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member

Eric has it mostly right. I understand how the command works as is. I had two points:

1) _How_ the command works is NOT orthogonal with how every other command in EAGLE works. Pick function, apply to object or group with the group having been defined by the preceeding group command. If I try to do that it doesn't work and it should. You've provided a different method which is fine, but it should work in the old way too to keep orthoganlity.

The reason for doing this is learning curve. If commands use different modes of operation then I also have to remember which command works in which mode. This is bad for usability. Orthogonality is good. If you want to have a special, optimized mode (like group now does) that is great and power-users like me will use it. But things should also _always_ work in the EAGLE way to help new users.

2) As the splice command is implemented you can't use it in a script. If this precedent is followed then scripting loses most of its power as new, powerful commands are added but not usable in scripts.

It seems like some good functionality was added but by product managers who didn't fully understand the actual power in why EAGLE was implemented in the way it was.

Cheers,

James

Eric Stevens wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 18:41
I believe James' question boils down to why can't I execute 'SLICE (x1 y1) (x2 y2) [width]'?

Eric

On 01/19/2017 01:34 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
> On 1/18/2017 9:34 PM, James Morrison wrote:
>> This new slice command doesn't seem to work on grouped traces. I selected
>> multiple traces with the group command and then applied the slice command
>> to the group, but nothing happened.
>>
>> Also, I can't invoke the slice command from the command line. I can start
>> it but I can't feed it the parameters to actually do the command. So it
>> required mouse use to function.
>>
>> While I can appreciate new implicit commands give the user some flexibility
>> by selecting the function first and then the object (like the slice command
>> currently works), I strongly feel that the original mode of EAGLE functions
>> should be maintained as well: select the function, then select the object
>> or group of objects to apply the function to. And all of that should be
>> completely functional from the command line.
>>
>> In the many, many schematics and boards I've done this mode of operation
>> (select function first then apply to object or group) has proven to be the
>> most efficient method. And if I have to start to remember which commands
>> work in which mode then that's going to start to become more and more
>> confusing as new commands are added.
>>
>> The beauty of EAGLE commands is the orthogonality and that everything can
>> be scripted by using the command line.
>>
>> James.
>>
>
> Hi James,
>
> I think you've misunderstood how the command works. You don't have to select the traces in order to slice them.
>
> Here's the basic workflow:
> 1. Click on the Slice icon.
> 2. Now you are going to define a slice line that runs through the traces you wish to slice. Left click the first point
> of the line.
> 3. You'll notice that now you have line going from that point to your mouse cursor. Left-click to define the second point.
> 4. Voila, you'll notice that the traces have been sliced following the line you defined.
>
> On the command line you can enter specific points for the slicing line as well as how wide the gap should be.
>
> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jorge Garcia



James Morrison ~~~ Stratford Digital
http://www.stratforddigital.ca
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