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EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #168349] Thu, 19 January 2017 02:24 Go to next message
James Morrison
Messages: 1129
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member

Trying to keep an open mind about v8.0 and hoping that the licensing issues will work themselves out....

For for now, seeing what's different. First thing I noticed is that EAGLE finally has implicit grouping. I suggested this years ago and finally it's made it in. Basically, if you don't have a command active and you draw a rectangle it will create an EAGLE group as if you ran the EAGLE group command (not persistent groups like other CAD software has, but essentially a temporary group for the next command, like EAGLE has always had).

So that is great. That will save lots of mouse clicks once I get used to it.

But.....

Now I get an error beep on the first left-mouse button click whenever a command isn't active, including the first corner of a group. That is super annoying. For instance, in the schematic editor, a left-click anywhere (with no command active) will beep AND start creating the first line in a polygon for creating a group. Very similar in PCB editor.

Also, when I run the group command I get a beep on the first mouse click even when EAGLE should know that clicking in an area with no objects is actually expected.

I assume that this is maybe something that somehow got missed (maybe the sound was down) when implementing the implicit group function. But it should be fixed as it is really annoying.

Cheers,

James.


James Morrison ~~~ Stratford Digital
http://www.stratforddigital.ca
Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #169992 is a reply to message #168349] Thu, 09 March 2017 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Sawle
Messages: 5
Registered: March 2017
Junior Member
Yep same problem here and cannot find a work around except to carry on doing my work in Labcenter Proteus, I have been trying to get to grips with Eagle but as it beeps everytime you do something I just get so fed up with it and cannot turn down the audio as its needed for the telephone systems that we use that go through our computers, im suggesting that we stick with Proteus till someone can sort this obvious bug out...

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #169993 is a reply to message #168349] Thu, 09 March 2017 22:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
Hi James,

That issue is worse in 8.0.2 to the extent that it makes it hard to draw an irregular group shape, especially in the library editor for some reason. I found I had to turn the new group more feature off in the settings to revert to the old behaviour for things to become usable.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #169997 is a reply to message #169992] Fri, 10 March 2017 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warrenbrayshaw
Messages: 1751
Registered: January 2010
Location: New Zealand
Senior Member
On 10/03/2017 9:46 a.m., James Sawle wrote:
> Yep same problem here and cannot find a work around except to carry on doing my work in Labcenter Proteus, I have been trying to get to grips with Eagle but as it beeps everytime you do something I just get so fed up with it and cannot turn down the audio as its needed for the telephone systems that we use that go through our computers, im suggesting that we stick with Proteus till someone can sort this obvious bug out...
>
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>


There is a command to turn off the beep, at least in v7

Type into the command line SET BEEP OFF and hit ENTER

HTH
Warren

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #169998 is a reply to message #169992] Fri, 10 March 2017 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
Go to *Options -> Set... -> Misc*

Ant then untick *Beep* and *Group command default on* and v7 functionality will be restored and also the beeps will be gone.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #169999 is a reply to message #169998] Fri, 10 March 2017 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
COMPACT
Messages: 54
Registered: May 2013
Member
That's sure some Wile E. Coyote.
Beep, Beep!

I don't get any beeping at all with 8.0.2. (Windows)
What procedure are you performing.

All I do is press ESC and that defaults to the Group tool , left drag to define a rectangle (or some left clicks and a right click to define a closed polygon) and it seems to work perfectly well.

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #170000 is a reply to message #169999] Fri, 10 March 2017 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> COMPACT wrote:
>
> I don't get any beeping at all with 8.0.2. (Windows)
> What procedure are you performing.
Maybe it's a Mac version thing? It definitely doesn't work right in 8.0.2 on either of my Mac's. v8.0.1 works as expected though so they definitely changed something that caused a regression for me. All I am doing is trying to define an irregular shaped group area within the library editor and it totally misbehaves. Takes multiple clicks to get it to actually start doing what I expect. Revert to v8.0.1 and all is fine again. I actually don't find the new way of operating speeds anything up though and changing to the old way just seems to work better for me at the moment.

> COMPACT wrote:
>
> All I do is press ESC and that defaults to the Group tool , left drag to define a rectangle (or some left clicks and a right click to define a closed polygon) and it seems to work perfectly well.
Sadly that does not work for me in v8.0.2. The ESC and left drag work as expected, the clicking to define the polygon doesn't.

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #170001 is a reply to message #168349] Fri, 10 March 2017 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Sawle
Messages: 5
Registered: March 2017
Junior Member
I just cannot believe that something so simple is not implemented in the software, in EVERY package that I have used over the years you just have to left click and hold down the mouse button, draw and area over the object you wish to move and then just release the mouse and then just drag it to where you want it to be, in fact the same procedure is available in well over 90% of the applications available in Windows and Mac OSX, I was asked to convert a load of schematics into eagle format for a client, after trying to get eagle to at least operate as a normal piece of software for 2 weeks now I have never been so frustrated, and cannot understand why this software is rated so highly especially when even simple tasks are stupidly problematic, I certainly cannot see our company purchasing a subscription to a piece of software that is basically unusable to the point where something I can do in Labcenter Proteus or PADs in a second, now takes ages to do in Eagle and sometimes just even then doesn't work as it should.

The beeps are annoying and thanks for the help to turn these off, but a simple task of moving groups of objects around the screen, is just too pathetic to warrant spending money on software that is not even productive.

Thanks for the help, but from searching the web it seems that Cadsoft never thought that fixing this was worth doing, and I have seen what Autodesk do to good software in the past.

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #170002 is a reply to message #170001] Fri, 10 March 2017 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ritchie Mettens
Messages: 28
Registered: January 2012
Junior Member
It is the problem with this software, simple things are not implemented, while it is full of very complex functions

I maintain that the graphic edition of the components deserve to be simplified, to edit a component or Import it sometimes takes hours, gentlemen from CADSOFT it is in 2017 !!!!, you can not put some function of Abode Illustrator in the graphic part? Otherwise it is a very good software ...

What a pity !!

Ritchie

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #170003 is a reply to message #170001] Fri, 10 March 2017 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> James Sawle wrote:
>
> I just cannot believe that something so simple is not implemented in the software, in EVERY package that I have used over the years you just have to left click and hold down the mouse button, draw and area over the objects you wish to move and then just release the mouse and then just drag it to where you want it to be, in fact the same procedure is available in well over 90% of ANY applications available in Windows and Mac OSX, I was asked to convert a load of schematics into eagle format for a client, after trying to get eagle to at least operate as a normal piece of software for 2 weeks now I have never been so frustrated, and cannot understand why this software is rated so highly especially when even simple tasks are stupidly problematic, I certainly cannot see our company purchasing a subscription to a piece of software that is basically unusable to the point where something I can do in Labcenter Proteus, Altium or PADs in a second, now takes ages to do in Eagle and sometimes just even then doesn't work as it should.
>
> The beeps are annoying and thanks for the help to turn these off, but a simple task of moving groups of objects around the screen, is just too pathetic to warrant spending money on software that is not even productive.
>
> Thanks for the help, but from searching the web it seems that Cadsoft never thought that fixing this was worth doing, and I have seen what Autodesk do to good software in the past so I certainly cannot see it being fixed soon or even ever...
It is implemented in EAGLE. The latest "Group mode always on" change in v8 makes EAGLE do exactly as you wish. It just has a bug for some reason in this version v8.0.2 for some people which makes it not behave quite right but I know they are working on fixing it.

But even without this change EAGLE is certainly not unusable and to claim it takes far longer to do things than other packages isn't accurate. FYI, I also use DxDesigner/PADS regularly and to me EAGLE is far quicker to do a lot of tasks. You just need to learn how to use it which really doesn't take that long. There are loads of tutorials around which can get you working efficiently quite quickly and if you don't know how to do something then just ask, there are usually plenty of people around who will be willing to help.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #170010 is a reply to message #170003] Fri, 10 March 2017 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
COMPACT
Messages: 54
Registered: May 2013
Member
Silly me!
My PC was outputting sound to a non existent HDMI speakers.
Yes it does beep for the initial group click - that doesn't annoy me because I'm accustomed to it.
May be a workaround is to mute the speaker.

It appears that most of you haven't read my Design Challenge posts which mention that to use EAGLE successfully you have to rewire your thinking to match the logic of its original designers.
It's not dissimilar to German cars where you turn on a switch to turn on a light that which indicates that you've turned off the Air Conditioning.
The designers appear to use the same core libraries for each all of the modules (PCB, Schematic and Library Manager) to make them very efficient which explains why some actions don't necessarily match the operator's assumptions and also have made the program platform agnostic (pc, mac, Linux).  It can be infuriating at first but once you've adapted and become accustomed it works very well.

One big gotcha is that the default configuration EAGLE assumes that the user has a 3 button mouse - with the middle button used panning the current view.
For one of my mice it's the scroll wheel button.

Another gotcha for the Schematic Editor is to place *Nets* and not *Lines*. The Net tool differs from the normal Line tool by performing the extras required for net management.
If you have used lines inadvertently they can bite you on your proverbials later on.

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Re: EAGLE v8.0 Implicit Group Command (Yeh) and Beeps on Every Left-Button Click (Boo) [message #170016 is a reply to message #170010] Sat, 11 March 2017 12:02 Go to previous message
rachaelp
Messages: 571
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> COMPACT wrote:
>
> Silly me!
> My PC was outputting sound to a non existent HDMI speakers.
> Yes it does beep for the initial group click - that doesn't annoy me because I'm accustomed to it.
> May be a workaround is to mute the speaker.
No need to mute the speaker, you can turn the beep off in the settings.
> COMPACT wrote:
>
> It appears that most of you haven't read my Design Challenge posts which mention that to use EAGLE successfully you have to rewire your thinking to match the logic of its original designers.
> It's not dissimilar to German cars where you turn on a switch to turn on a light that which indicates that you've turned off the Air Conditioning.
> The designers appear to use the same core libraries for each all of the modules (PCB, Schematic and Library Manager) to make them very efficient which explains why some actions don't necessarily match the operator's assumptions and also have made the program platform agnostic (pc, mac, Linux). It can be infuriating at first but once you've adapted and become accustomed it works very well.
Agreed. I think as soon as you understand that the UI is simply a front end for the command line commands then reading and understanding how they work makes it all fall into place. It did for me anyway.
> COMPACT wrote:
>
> One big gotcha is that the default configuration EAGLE assumes that the user has a 3 button mouse - with the middle button used panning the current view.
> For one of my mice it's the scroll wheel button.
>
> Another gotcha for the Schematic Editor is to place *Nets* and not *Lines*. The Net tool differs from the normal Line tool by performing the extras required for net management.
> If you have used lines inadvertently they can bite you on your proverbials later on.
Useful tips for people new to EAGLE. On the subject of the mouse, before v8 it was a little awkward on a Mac to change routing layer as the mac doesn't have a middle button! This has at least been fixed in v8 :-)

Best Regards,

Rachael

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