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Home » CadSoft Support Forums » eagle.userchat.eng » When is Eagle v8 coming out? (Cadsoft.io says: It's coming. Soon.)
When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168307] Tue, 17 January 2017 14:29 Go to next message
justyn
Messages: 21
Registered: October 2014
Location: UK
Junior Member
Cadsoft.io is teasing with some features for the new version of Eagle, and the main page states "It's coming. Soon".

Does anyone have any idea what kind of timescale the "soon" is? Could it be this week, or next month, or three months?

The features they list sound promising:

* Interactive router
* BGA fanout
* Synchronised reusable design blocks
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168308 is a reply to message #168307] Tue, 17 January 2017 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Murphy
Messages: 8
Registered: April 2014
Junior Member
It seems the answer is... now.


--
To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
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Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168309 is a reply to message #168308] Tue, 17 January 2017 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justyn
Messages: 21
Registered: October 2014
Location: UK
Junior Member
[quote title=David Murphy wrote on Tue, 17 January 2017 10:41]It seems the answer is... now.

Do you have some inside info? I don't see anything...

I notice they just changed the name of their Twitter account from CadSoftTech to ADSKEAGLE.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168311 is a reply to message #168309] Tue, 17 January 2017 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/17/2017 12:23 PM, Justyn wrote:
> [quote title=David Murphy wrote on Tue, 17 January 2017 10:41]It seems the
> answer is... now.
>
> Do you have some inside info? I don't see anything...
>
> I notice they just changed the name of their Twitter account from
> CadSoftTech to ADSKEAGLE.
>

Hi All,

It actually has released already but our site hasn't changed over.

It will become more obvious once the website switches. If you guys have
any questions I'll be here.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168313 is a reply to message #168307] Tue, 17 January 2017 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joop_
Messages: 67
Registered: March 2007
Member
One of the new exciting features:

Autodesk & Cadsoft will try again to enforce a "licence management"
system that will require you to have an internet connection...

They seem to have forgotten this:

Quote:

Dear Valued EAGLE Customer,

With the release of EAGLE v7, CadSoft Computer introduced a new
License Management system for EAGLE in order to better protect
our intellectual property and offer more flexibility and control
to customers with multi-user licenses on a network. During the
two weeks since the launch of EAGLE v7, we have been listening
carefully to your constructive feedback and concerns about the
new License Management technology and have decided to remove the
license management features from EAGLE v7.

CadSoft Computer has always, and will always, put the customer
needs at the focus of everything we do. We understand that for a
large group of our customers the current License Management is
causing limitations or is simply not usable in your current work
flow. Therefore, we have decided to withdraw the new License
Management system with immediate effect.


http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/t/49854/c7286ef7ecac30e5ec09e9251159f508/

Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168314 is a reply to message #168309] Tue, 17 January 2017 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Murphy
Messages: 8
Registered: April 2014
Junior Member
Sorry. I was at work and didn't click right though on the download. It seems that if you do you get the old Eagle 7.6 (not even 7.7)

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Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168315 is a reply to message #168313] Tue, 17 January 2017 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/17/2017 2:53 PM, Joop wrote:
> One of the new exciting features:
>
> Autodesk & Cadsoft will try again to enforce a "licence management"
> system that will require you to have an internet connection...
>
> They seem to have forgotten this:
Hi Joop,

It was nice to chat with you on friday. I'll never forget that fiasco
with Newark. There were a lot of factors that made that implementation
unuseable. I've played with this one. Even though I know that any change
in this area is going to be met with resistance, this implementation is
probably the least annoying.

So here are the details:
- Gone are key files and installation codes. No more having to store
them or remembering where you put them. Now your EAGLE license will be
tied to you Autodesk Account. When EAGLE starts up for the first time
you will have to login to your Autodesk Account and EAGLE will hit the
Autodesk server to check your entitlement(this is what Autodesk calls
your license).

If everything checks out, you'll be greeted with the control panel. If
you close EAGLE and open it again it will automatically use the
credentials you supplied previously and just start.

- EAGLE can work in offline mode for 14 days. The countdown starts from
the last time EAGLE was able to hit Autodesk servers. So if you go on a
business trip you don't have to worry about Wifi or anything like that.
It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
able to work.

That is basically all there is to it. At a minimum you need to be able
to connect to the internet once every two weeks in order to use EAGLE.
This is the same licensing model Fusion uses and it seems to be working
pretty good for them.

Thought it would be useful to spell it out clearly. Let me know if there
are any questions or if I missed something.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168316 is a reply to message #168307] Tue, 17 January 2017 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joop_
Messages: 67
Registered: March 2007
Member
No need to throw out the key files and registration codes.
Nobody asked for that, they have been working fine.

What happens when Autodesk pull the plug from their authentication server?

Quote:
CadSoft Computer has always, and will always, put the customer
needs at the focus of everything we do.


We will see how that is going to work out this time...
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168317 is a reply to message #168315] Tue, 17 January 2017 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 532
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
Hi Jorge,

Can you confirm that it will still work on multiple machines? I.e. I currently run EAGLE on two Mac's and one Linux PC, as I use different machines depending upon where I am and what I am doing. If that ability were no longer available that would be an issue for me.

Best Regards,

Rachael
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168318 is a reply to message #168315] Wed, 18 January 2017 00:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rk
Messages: 386
Registered: February 2005
Senior Member
Am 17.01.2017 um 23:18 schrieb Jorge Garcia:
> It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
> offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
> able to work.
>
> That is basically all there is to it. At a minimum you need to be able
> to connect to the internet once every two weeks in order to use EAGLE.

Bye bye EAGLE. We had a good time the last 20 years, but it's time to
look for alternatives now...
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168319 is a reply to message #168315] Wed, 18 January 2017 07:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joern Paschedag
Messages: 1424
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Am 17.01.2017 um 23:18 schrieb Jorge Garcia:
> On 1/17/2017 2:53 PM, Joop wrote:
>> One of the new exciting features:
>>
>> Autodesk & Cadsoft will try again to enforce a "licence management"
>> system that will require you to have an internet connection...
>>
>> They seem to have forgotten this:
> Hi Joop,
>
> It was nice to chat with you on friday. I'll never forget that fiasco
> with Newark. There were a lot of factors that made that implementation
> unuseable. I've played with this one. Even though I know that any change
> in this area is going to be met with resistance, this implementation is
> probably the least annoying.
>
> So here are the details:
> - Gone are key files and installation codes. No more having to store
> them or remembering where you put them. Now your EAGLE license will be
> tied to you Autodesk Account. When EAGLE starts up for the first time
> you will have to login to your Autodesk Account and EAGLE will hit the
> Autodesk server to check your entitlement(this is what Autodesk calls
> your license).
>
> If everything checks out, you'll be greeted with the control panel. If
> you close EAGLE and open it again it will automatically use the
> credentials you supplied previously and just start.
>
> - EAGLE can work in offline mode for 14 days. The countdown starts from
> the last time EAGLE was able to hit Autodesk servers. So if you go on a
> business trip you don't have to worry about Wifi or anything like that.
> It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
> offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
> able to work.
>
> That is basically all there is to it. At a minimum you need to be able
> to connect to the internet once every two weeks in order to use EAGLE.
> This is the same licensing model Fusion uses and it seems to be working
> pretty good for them.
>
> Thought it would be useful to spell it out clearly. Let me know if there
> are any questions or if I missed something.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jorge Garcia
>
>
Time to say goodbye.. after 25 years.

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168320 is a reply to message #168319] Wed, 18 January 2017 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tilmann Reh
Messages: 2066
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
Joern Paschedag schrieb:

> Time to say goodbye.. after 25 years.

Indeed (27 for me).

I was really hoping that V8 would be a step forward, but this license
model is an absolute no-go.

Farewell,
Tilmann
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168321 is a reply to message #168320] Wed, 18 January 2017 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warrenbrayshaw
Messages: 1732
Registered: January 2010
Location: New Zealand
Senior Member
On 18/01/2017 8:34 p.m., Tilmann Reh wrote:
> Joern Paschedag schrieb:
>
>> Time to say goodbye.. after 25 years.
>
> Indeed (27 for me).
>
> I was really hoping that V8 would be a step forward, but this license
> model is an absolute no-go.
>
> Farewell,
> Tilmann
>

I see no difference to that vehemently shouted down last time.

I too won't support a product that compels connection to the internet
beyond initial registration.

Warren

--
.... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a functional news reader like
Thunderbird!
.... or http://www.eaglecentral.ca browser access to CadSoft EAGLE
support forums.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168322 is a reply to message #168321] Wed, 18 January 2017 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob Pearce
Messages: 470
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
On 18/01/17 08:10, warrenbrayshaw wrote:
> On 18/01/2017 8:34 p.m., Tilmann Reh wrote:
>> Joern Paschedag schrieb:
>>
>>> Time to say goodbye.. after 25 years.
>>
>> Indeed (27 for me).
>>
>> I was really hoping that V8 would be a step forward, but this license
>> model is an absolute no-go.
>>
>> Farewell,
>> Tilmann
>>
>
> I see no difference to that vehemently shouted down last time.
>
> I too won't support a product that compels connection to the internet
> beyond initial registration.
>
Indeed.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168323 is a reply to message #168307] Wed, 18 January 2017 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eaglecandies
Messages: 185
Registered: September 2011
Location: Cincinnati
Senior Member
It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
able to work.

.....is that what we've all been waiting for?

Since there must be a login, what guarantees the license won't mysteriously expire in the future?
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168324 is a reply to message #168315] Wed, 18 January 2017 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justyn
Messages: 21
Registered: October 2014
Location: UK
Junior Member
Jorge Garcia wrote on Tue, 17 January 2017 17:18

- EAGLE can work in offline mode for 14 days. The countdown starts from
the last time EAGLE was able to hit Autodesk servers. So if you go on a
business trip you don't have to worry about Wifi or anything like that.
It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
able to work.


Hi Jorge,

This is obviously very unwelcome news, but I was expecting it.

Autodesk will be under immense pressure to make sure this is not problematic for any users. In fact I have never, ever used a piece of software with this kind of licensing that did not occasionally fail to authenticate for some reason (ie due to a OS update rendering the license's system verification incompatible).

I'd be grateful if you could answer two important questions.

1) Will Eagle still allow you to fully inspect designs in read-only mode while completely offline for more than 14 days (or without an Autodesk account at all).

2) Will the file formats for boards, schematics and libraries all still be plain (non-obfuscated) XML? This is very important if we are to trust our designs to a piece of software that it may not be possible to run at some point in the future (due to changes at Autodesk or the ownership of Eagle, for example).

Thanks.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168325 is a reply to message #168315] Wed, 18 January 2017 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 179
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On 17.01.2017 23:18, Jorge Garcia wrote:

> - EAGLE can work in offline mode for 14 days. The countdown starts from
> the last time EAGLE was able to hit Autodesk servers. So if you go on a
> business trip you don't have to worry about Wifi or anything like that.
> It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
> offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
> able to work.


Thats already a showstopper for me. I do field campaigns in very remote
areas of the planet and they are longer then 2 weeks. Is EAGLE going to
work at least as a viewer without a license after the 2 weeks?

Markus
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168326 is a reply to message #168308] Wed, 18 January 2017 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 179
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
> It seems the answer is... now.

That also means there is a new philosophy of not public beta testing
EAGLE anymore with feedback from the community?

Thats really sad, that was one of the huge benefits.

I guess its to make the people shut up upfront about the new license
management. Lesson learnt from the V7 desaster.

I think I also look for alternatives then.

Markus
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168327 is a reply to message #168315] Wed, 18 January 2017 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chuck Huber
Messages: 592
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
On 01/17/2017 05:18 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
> On 1/17/2017 2:53 PM, Joop wrote:
>> One of the new exciting features:
>>
>> Autodesk & Cadsoft will try again to enforce a "licence management"
>> system that will require you to have an internet connection...
>>
>> They seem to have forgotten this:
> Hi Joop,
>
> It was nice to chat with you on friday. I'll never forget that fiasco
> with Newark. There were a lot of factors that made that implementation
> unuseable. I've played with this one. Even though I know that any
> change in this area is going to be met with resistance, this
> implementation is probably the least annoying.
>
> So here are the details:
> - Gone are key files and installation codes. No more having to store
> them or remembering where you put them. Now your EAGLE license will be
> tied to you Autodesk Account.

I have never considered storing a key file, nor remembering where it's
stored, as problems.

> When EAGLE starts up for the first time you will have to login to your
> Autodesk Account and EAGLE will hit the Autodesk server to check your
> entitlement(this is what Autodesk calls your license).
>
> If everything checks out, you'll be greeted with the control panel. If
> you close EAGLE and open it again it will automatically use the
> credentials you supplied previously and just start.
>
> - EAGLE can work in offline mode for 14 days. The countdown starts
> from the last time EAGLE was able to hit Autodesk servers. So if you
> go on a business trip you don't have to worry about Wifi or anything
> like that. It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and
> then go offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you
> won't be able to work.
>
> That is basically all there is to it. At a minimum you need to be able
> to connect to the internet once every two weeks in order to use EAGLE.

So, Eagle is going to be rented software. One of the nice things about
Eagle is that I can use it on a secured system (one that's not connected
to the Internet). I guess that's out the window with v8.

This also means that the sales model is no longer a purchase, but
instead it is now rented. The customer now must repeatedly ask
permission to use the software at least every 14 days.

Jorge, I'm sure that everyone reading this is aware of the threat of
cyber attacks. Such attacks are growing both in frequency and
sophistication. It is only a matter of time before a Denial-Of-Service
(DOS) attack makes most cloud servers in accessible, perhaps as
collateral damage from an attack on a different target. The best way to
counter such attacks is to use distributed resources. And the best
distributed resource model is one that the client doesn't need to get on
the Internet at all, which has been Cadsoft's model.

It's been asked in this thread just how long AutoDesk intends to
authorize any particular license without imposing a renewal fee. Will I
be able to use v8 even when support for it has long vanished? A poster
on this thread has already mentioned that he does extended work in
locations where the Internet is not accessible.

I'll add to that that only a limited number of my machines have
connectivity to the Internet. Version 7 will become the last version
that is installed on them.

> This is the same licensing model Fusion uses and it seems to be
> working pretty good for them.

Well, Fusion is cloud based, which means that it's rented, and that the
customer's intellectual property (IP) is stored on AutoDesk's servers,
which are not controlled or secured by the customer. Funny... They
boast that one can do 3D CAD design from anywhere (phone, table,
desktop). Shouldn't that be qualified as "anywhere that is Internet
accessible"?

All in all, I'm not happy with this move. I'll continue to use v7 under
the current license agreement, and will forego upgrading to v8.

I'd like to know if AD has any solution for off-network machines.

Best regards,
- Chuck
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168328 is a reply to message #168326] Wed, 18 January 2017 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/18/2017 4:48 AM, Markus Rudolf wrote:
>> It seems the answer is... now.
>
> That also means there is a new philosophy of not public beta testing
> EAGLE anymore with feedback from the community?
>
> Thats really sad, that was one of the huge benefits.
>
> I guess its to make the people shut up upfront about the new license
> management. Lesson learnt from the V7 desaster.
>
> I think I also look for alternatives then.
>
> Markus

Hi Markus,

I don't know what the future holds front, but many products at Autodesk
have public roadmaps and community members who serve as beta testers.

We just didn't have enough time to set all of that up.

"Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection" Mark Twain

Give us a little time this is the first release and we are still getting
our bearings.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168329 is a reply to message #168324] Wed, 18 January 2017 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
> Hi Jorge,
>
> This is obviously very unwelcome news, but I was expecting it.
>
> Autodesk will be under immense pressure to make sure this is not
> problematic for any users. In fact I have never, ever used a piece of
> software with this kind of licensing that did not occasionally fail to
> authenticate for some reason (ie due to a OS update rendering the license's
> system verification incompatible).
>
> I'd be grateful if you could answer two important questions.
>
> 1) Will Eagle still allow you to fully inspect designs in read-only mode
> while completely offline for more than 14 days (or without an Autodesk
> account at all).

As of right now it becomes unusable. I was not aware of that, I will
bring it to the attention of management immediately to see if this can
be changed. Having it as a reader shouldn't conflict with Autodesk
policies.

You need to have an Autodesk account, even to use the freeware. They are
easy to obtain from accounts.autodesk.com
>
> 2) Will the file formats for boards, schematics and libraries all still be
> plain (non-obfuscated) XML? This is very important if we are to trust our
> designs to a piece of software that it may not be possible to run at some
> point in the future (due to changes at Autodesk or the ownership of Eagle,
> for example).

Yes, we will continue to be XML.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168330 is a reply to message #168317] Wed, 18 January 2017 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/17/2017 5:48 PM, Rachael wrote:
> Hi Jorge,
>
> Can you confirm that it will still work on multiple machines? I.e. I
> currently run EAGLE on two Mac's and one Linux PC, as I use different
> machines depending upon where I am and what I am doing. If that ability
> were no longer available that would be an issue for me.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rachael
>
Hello Rachael,

I can confirm that you can still work across multiple machines. Just
login to each machine the first time.

You may occasionally have to login again, but yes you can run EAGLE on
all of the machines you own.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168331 is a reply to message #168327] Wed, 18 January 2017 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
>>
>> That is basically all there is to it. At a minimum you need to be able
>> to connect to the internet once every two weeks in order to use EAGLE.
>
> So, Eagle is going to be rented software. One of the nice things about
> Eagle is that I can use it on a secured system (one that's not connected
> to the Internet). I guess that's out the window with v8.
>
> This also means that the sales model is no longer a purchase, but
> instead it is now rented. The customer now must repeatedly ask
> permission to use the software at least every 14 days.

Just to clarify, you don't have to login every 14 days. EAGLE needs to
be able to reach the server at least once every 14 days. You are correct
in that EAGLE is now a subscription model. You can pay for it on a
yearly basis or if you only work occasionally on EAGLE you can choose to
pay monthly.
>
> Jorge, I'm sure that everyone reading this is aware of the threat of
> cyber attacks. Such attacks are growing both in frequency and
> sophistication. It is only a matter of time before a Denial-Of-Service
> (DOS) attack makes most cloud servers in accessible, perhaps as
> collateral damage from an attack on a different target. The best way to
> counter such attacks is to use distributed resources. And the best
> distributed resource model is one that the client doesn't need to get on
> the Internet at all, which has been Cadsoft's model.
>
> It's been asked in this thread just how long AutoDesk intends to
> authorize any particular license without imposing a renewal fee.
See my answer above.
Will I
> be able to use v8 even when support for it has long vanished? A poster
> on this thread has already mentioned that he does extended work in
> locations where the Internet is not accessible.
Fusion updates continously so as long as you pay the subscription fee
you are always using the latest features and moving your files forward.

As it stands now if you are not on subscription you won't be able to use
EAGLE v8 or any other version that may come out in the future. It
behaves like an electric bill, if you don't pay it the power gets shut off.

>

>
> I'd like to know if AD has any solution for off-network machines.

At this point in time and under this licensing mechanism there is no
solution for off-network machines. There are other schemes at ADSK that
do allow off-network licenses, but EAGLE doesn't currently have them. I
will be making our management aware of this full thread to see what
improvements can be made.

Autodesk is full subscription going forward and this position is
non-negotiable. I know that for a lot of you this is not good news, but
there's not much that can be done about it.

I'm truly sorry guys.
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168332 is a reply to message #168325] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
> Thats already a showstopper for me. I do field campaigns in very remote
> areas of the planet and they are longer then 2 weeks. Is EAGLE going to
> work at least as a viewer without a license after the 2 weeks?
>
> Markus
>

Hi Markus,

For now it won't, but I've brought to the attention of management. Let's
see what they say.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168333 is a reply to message #168323] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/18/2017 4:06 AM, Hoyt wrote:
> It is VITAL that you don't sign out. If you sign out and then go
> offline, EAGLE won't have your licensing credentials and you won't be
> able to work.
> ....is that what we've all been waiting for?
>
> Since there must be a login, what guarantees the license won't mysteriously
> expire in the future?
>

Hi Hoyt,

Not sure what you mean here. The only reason a license would expire is
if the subscription is not paid(for the free version you just need an
account) or if you have been offline for more than 2 weeks.

Not sure what would be mysterious, could you clarify?

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168334 is a reply to message #168331] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
> As it stands now if you are not on subscription you won't be able to use
> EAGLE v8 or any other version that may come out in the future. It
> behaves like an electric bill, if you don't pay it the power gets shut off.

This excludes the freeware, because the freeware is free. All you need
to use it is an Autodesk account. My comment above only concerns paid
licenses. I read it again and wanted to make sure that it's clear, we
still have a freeware and it's still free.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168335 is a reply to message #168331] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
shabaz
Messages: 184
Registered: October 2012
Senior Member
Hi Jorge,

What will be the rental (subscription) cost for the 'EAGLE Make' version?
To be honest I don't necessarily mind subscription provided that over the long run it works out cheaper than renewing under the old model, so if there is (say) a major release each year, and it would have cost (say) 100 euro per release with the older non-subscription model, then (say) 200 euro for three years under subscription  (i.e. $8 per month) looks really good.

Some people stay on older releases to save costs, so they will be less inclined to do that if they see that they can continue to have the latest release if they want it, at a lower overall cost.

But it does have to work really well, there is nothing more frustrating than swapping out some hardware on the PC and finding that the software locks up and an e-mail needs to be sent.

Anyway, this is just a single opinion, I know others have used EAGLE for a lot longer than me and know the commercial models a lot better than me, and I truly respect their opinion. I just wanted to provide some input from a personal user perspective, for EAGLE Make version only.

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Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168336 is a reply to message #168329] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justyn
Messages: 21
Registered: October 2014
Location: UK
Junior Member
Jorge Garcia wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 12:41

> 1) Will Eagle still allow you to fully inspect designs in read-only mode
> while completely offline for more than 14 days (or without an Autodesk
> account at all).

As of right now it becomes unusable. I was not aware of that, I will
bring it to the attention of management immediately to see if this can
be changed. Having it as a reader shouldn't conflict with Autodesk
policies.

You need to have an Autodesk account, even to use the freeware. They are
easy to obtain from accounts.autodesk.com



Hi Jorge,

Thanks for explaining, and bringing up this issue with management.

I see it as a serious problem if it is not possible, after installing Eagle, to even inspect designs without an internet connection and working license situation.

No license enforcement software is perfect. As well as issues with connectivity, I have had problems in the past where a system update since a piece of software was last used has broken the license checking mechanism, requiring an update from the software provider.

As it stands you are telling us that under any of the following conditions we would no longer be able to use Eagle at all:

1) You are currently without a working internet connection and you are not signed in (or last used Eagle more than 14 days ago)
2) The Autodesk license server is temporarily down and you are not signed in (or last used Eagle more than 14 days ago)
3) An operating system update has broken the license enforcement mechanism and a fix has not yet been released

It is of course potentially very problematic that Eagle should lose any functionality in such conditions, but it sounds like Autodesk won't budge on it.

Therefore I think it is very important that in ALL of these situations, Eagle at the very least falls back to being a fully functional reader.

Imagine being at a factory in China and being unable to properly check an urgent design query because you don't have an internet connection? Or you do have a connection, but there is some kind of software issue caused by your OS? You must at least be able to inspect the designs, even if you can't modify them.

This is absolutely critical stuff.

Jorge Garcia wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 12:41

Yes, we will continue to be XML.


Better news thanks!
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168337 is a reply to message #168307] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eaglecandies
Messages: 185
Registered: September 2011
Location: Cincinnati
Senior Member
The only reason a license would expire is
if the subscription is not paid


Sounds like Autodesk may have changed everything Eagle had going for it. How much does this "subscription" cost? Is Eagle still the same low cost solution? If not, KIcad is looking better.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168338 is a reply to message #168335] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Robledo
Messages: 48
Registered: August 2005
Member
On 01/18/2017 01:14 PM, shabaz wrote:
> Hi Jorge,
>
> What will be the rental (subscription) cost for the 'EAGLE Make' version?
> To be honest I don't necessarily mind subscription provided that over the long run it works out cheaper than renewing under the old model, so if there is (say) a major release each year, and it would have cost (say)

100 euro per release with the older non-subscription model, then (say)
200 euro for three years under subscription (i.e. $8 per month) looks
really good.
>
> Some people stay on older releases to save costs, so they will be less inclined to do that if they see that they can continue to have the latest release if they want it, at a lower overall cost.
>
> But it does have to work really well, there is nothing more frustrating than swapping out some hardware on the PC and finding that the software locks up and an e-mail needs to be sent.
>
> Anyway, this is just a single opinion, I know others have used EAGLE for a lot longer than me and know the commercial models a lot better than me, and I

truly respect their opinion. I just wanted to provide some input from a
personal user perspective, for EAGLE Make version only.
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> https://www.element14.com/community/message/213321
>

Hi Shabaz,
Pricing structure will be officially announced soon enough, there will
be pricing options that are really close to your request. EAGLE will be
tied to your Autodesk Account, so no matter what happens as long as you
have online access you should be able to activate EAGLE. As stated
earlier, the free version will remain available.
Your participation and comments on the Forum are greatly appreciated.
Ed
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168339 is a reply to message #168337] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1282
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/18/2017 1:18 PM, Hoyt wrote:
> The only reason a license would expire is
> if the subscription is not paid
>
> Sounds like Autodesk may have changed everything Eagle had going for it.
> How much does this "subscription" cost? Is Eagle still the same low cost
> solution? If not, KIcad is looking better.
>

Hi Hoyt,

The pricing now is actually better if you break down. Like Ed mentioned
we will be releasing pricing information shortly once the new site is up.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168340 is a reply to message #168331] Wed, 18 January 2017 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob Pearce
Messages: 470
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
On 18/01/17 17:53, Jorge Garcia wrote:
> You are correct in that EAGLE is now a subscription model.

That's a complete show-stopper for me.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168348 is a reply to message #168331] Thu, 19 January 2017 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Morrison
Messages: 1129
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member

Jorge Garcia wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 17:53
>>

<snip>

At this point in time and under this licensing mechanism there is no
solution for off-network machines. There are other schemes at ADSK that
do allow off-network licenses, but EAGLE doesn't currently have them. I
will be making our management aware of this full thread to see what
improvements can be made.

Autodesk is full subscription going forward and this position is
non-negotiable. I know that for a lot of you this is not good news, but
there's not much that can be done about it.

I'm truly sorry guys.
Jorge Garcia


There's no need to be sorry Jorge. Either EAGLE customers will accept this change or they won't. I hope Autodesk did a lot of research into the mess that Farnell made with v7.0 licensing and have thought through how people use EAGLE.

I have a question about the subscription model. Say I subscribe at v8.0 and continue subscription until v8.2 comes out. Then I stop subscribing. Can I continue to use v8.2 indefinitely?

One other question: The website says the "Standard" license is 2-signal layers and "Premium" is 16 layers. Is the 2-signal layers a typo? What happened to the 6-layer level in between (formerly called Standard before Autodesk changed the names)?

Finally, consider businesses (like mine, Stratford Digital) who stake their reputation on EAGLE. If I can't work because of something out of my control (autodesk's server is down, internet between here and there is not working, ...) then I may not be able to deliver and that looks bad on me. As a professional, I can't just blame the tools. That is one of the main reasons I chose EAGLE all those years ago: it doesn't crash, it works on every platform, and it doesn't need any other infrastructure to please the licensing gods. I'm still trying to get my head around the changes but I hope that this will still continue to be the case.

Cheers,

James.


James Morrison ~~~ Stratford Digital
http://www.stratforddigital.ca
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168350 is a reply to message #168316] Thu, 19 January 2017 02:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josh Hewson
Messages: 8
Registered: May 2015
Junior Member
I dont like this renting software model: I would prefer to pay for it, and use it with or without being online and get free updates as they become available. ~ Similiar to buying software on the Apple App Store.

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Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168351 is a reply to message #168307] Thu, 19 January 2017 02:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josh Hewson
Messages: 8
Registered: May 2015
Junior Member
I do not like this renting software model: I would prefer to pay for it. Use it with or without being online and get free updates as they become available. ~ Similiar to buying software on the Apple App Store

This is a no-go for me.

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Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168355 is a reply to message #168350] Thu, 19 January 2017 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Leikvoll
Messages: 1340
Registered: November 2007
Senior Member
On 19.01.2017 03:26, Josh Hewson wrote:
> I dont like this renting software model: I would prefer to pay for it, and use it with or without being online and get free updates as they become available. ~ Similiar to buying software on the Apple App Store.

I agree to this. I don't like to be held hostage (* see below) by some
unknown future company policy. I find the "old" sw model very reliable,
as it doesn't matter what the future brings.

I do see sw/apps changing toward subscription models and I don't like
it. In fact I try to stay away from it. If my kid wants to play a game
on the ipad and I can buy it for $5, I may do that. If they want $1 a
month, by principle I don't buy it, even if I know the kid will be tired
of the game within a month. It is just the amount of involvement that
puts me off. I have to start getting mentally involved, like thinking
"but what happens after I pay for a month and a month has passed? Will
they automatically charge me again? For how long?", so I just don't go
there. I prefer paying some extra to get all that out of my head.

My biggest worry is some kind of future change "outside your walls" that
will render the software unusable and basically ask for ransom in a
social acceptable way, like require you to pay for soft or hw updates. I
think sw companies are really taking advantage of customers that don't
read or care about the license agreements because they are unable to
understand any consequences.


When it comes to Eagle 8, I don't know what to do yet. I am not
comfortable upgrading, but may end up doing it after all if I find the
new features worthy, but it will leave me with some discomfort, like
loosing another battle. Investigating what Kicad can do is very
tempting, and I feel I should enforce my strong opinion as customer too.


(*) I have seen this hostage situation happen on my old gen1 ipad, where
apps stop working and deny upgrades unless you have latest iOS, even if
the old hardware is perfectly capable of doing the job. It is just too
much hassle for them to support all iOS versions. I think we will see
more of these issues in the future.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168359 is a reply to message #168348] Thu, 19 January 2017 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 179
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On 19.01.2017 03:05, James Morrison wrote:
> That is one of the main
> reasons I chose EAGLE all those years ago: it doesn't crash, it works on
> every platform, and it doesn't need any other infrastructure to please the
> licensing gods. I'm still trying to get my head around the changes but I
> hope that this will still continue to be the case.
>
> Cheers,
>
> James.
>

Fully ACK.
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168376 is a reply to message #168359] Thu, 19 January 2017 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joern Paschedag
Messages: 1424
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Am 19.01.2017 um 10:29 schrieb Markus Rudolf:
> On 19.01.2017 03:05, James Morrison wrote:
>> That is one of the main
>> reasons I chose EAGLE all those years ago: it doesn't crash, it works on
>> every platform, and it doesn't need any other infrastructure to please
>> the
>> licensing gods. I'm still trying to get my head around the changes but I
>> hope that this will still continue to be the case.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> James.
>>
>
> Fully ACK.

INDEED

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168384 is a reply to message #168348] Thu, 19 January 2017 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Robledo
Messages: 48
Registered: August 2005
Member
Hi James,
I am certain Jorge will also chime into this thread, but I will do my
best to be as accurate as possible on some of the points made.

On 01/18/2017 09:05 PM, James Morrison wrote:
> Jorge Garcia wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 17:53
>>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> At this point in time and under this licensing mechanism there is no
>> solution for off-network machines. There are other schemes at ADSK that
>>
>> do allow off-network licenses, but EAGLE doesn't currently have them. I
>>
>> will be making our management aware of this full thread to see what
>> improvements can be made.
>>
>> Autodesk is full subscription going forward and this position is
>> non-negotiable. I know that for a lot of you this is not good news, but
>>
>> there's not much that can be done about it.
>>
>> I'm truly sorry guys.
>> Jorge Garcia
>
>
> There's no need to be sorry Jorge. Either EAGLE customers will accept this
> change or they won't. I hope Autodesk did a lot of research into the mess
> that Farnell made with v7.0 licensing and have thought through how people
> use EAGLE.
>
> I have a question about the subscription model. Say I subscribe at v8.0
> and continue subscription until v8.2 comes out. Then I stop subscribing.
> Can I continue to use v8.2 indefinitely?

After the terms of the subscription have ended, the program will have
the limitation of the free version.


>
> One other question: The website says the "Standard" license is 2-signal
> layers and "Premium" is 16 layers. Is the 2-signal layers a typo? What
> happened to the 6-layer level in between (formerly called Standard before
> Autodesk changed the names)?

That is not a typo, the standard edition of Autdesk EAGLE supports 2
layers. If there is a need of more than 2 layers, then a Premium
subscription will be required. EAGLE is no longer subject to a specific
board size, with this new model size limitation is by area.


>
> Finally, consider businesses (like mine, Stratford Digital) who stake their
> reputation on EAGLE. If I can't work because of something out of my
> control (autodesk's server is down, internet between here and there is not
> working, ...) then I may not be able to deliver and that looks bad on me.
> As a professional, I can't just blame the tools. That is one of the main
> reasons I chose EAGLE all those years ago: it doesn't crash, it works on
> every platform, and it doesn't need any other infrastructure to please the
> licensing gods. I'm still trying to get my head around the changes but I
> hope that this will still continue to be the case.

EAGLE will continue to work normally offline for 14 days. Continued
development is committed to support all platforms and offer you a
program with the stability you are use to.

I hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Ed
edwin.robledo@autodesk.com


>
> Cheers,
>
> James.
>
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168809 is a reply to message #168331] Sun, 22 January 2017 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neon John
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2016
Junior Member
On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:53:07 -0500, Jorge Garcia
<jorge@cadsoftusa.com> wrote:


> At this point in time and under this licensing mechanism there is no
> solution for off-network machines. There are other schemes at ADSK that
> do allow off-network licenses, but EAGLE doesn't currently have them. I
> will be making our management aware of this full thread to see what
> improvements can be made.

Here's my situation. My company manufactures induction heaters. The
PCB is off-line. That is, it is at line potential. I have a laptop
dedicated to that board. When it's time to burn an upgrade, debug or
use the ICE, this laptop is unplugged and runs on battery.

We don't use WiFi around here for security reasons. That computer
never has and never will be connected to the Internet. New material
gets transferred the old fashioned way - sneakernet with thumb drives.

Now I can keep the schematic and board layout in windows so I don't
have to clutter my bench with papers. Since Eagle has been
autodesked, I can no long do my job using Eagle software.

My solution, of course, is KiCAD so it really doesn't matter to me
what AutoDesk does.

I would be interested to learn how much revenue this move costs
AutoDesk as people migrate to other solutions.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168811 is a reply to message #168809] Sun, 22 January 2017 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 532
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> John DeArmond wrote:
>
> Now I can keep the schematic and board layout in windows so I don't
> have to clutter my bench with papers. *Since Eagle has been*
> *autodesked, I can no long do my job using Eagle software*.
>
> My solution, of course, is KiCAD so it really doesn't matter to me
> what AutoDesk does.
You can continue doing your job with the current version of EAGLE which you already own without issue. That license isn't going away just because v8 has been released with a subscription model. You just won't be able to upgrade to v8 on this machine.

Whilst I appreciate people are not happy with EAGLE going subscription based for v8, there is no need for everybody to suddenly migrate all their systems to another package immediately as existing licenses will continue to be valid indefinitely. Yes you might not be willing to use the subscription based version, but there is plenty of time to see how things play out and, if needed, migrate to a package which suits your needs better.

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Re: When is Eagle v8 coming out? [message #168844 is a reply to message #168811] Mon, 23 January 2017 14:18 Go to previous message
Chuck Huber
Messages: 592
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
On 01/22/2017 01:24 PM, rachaelp wrote:
>
> Whilst I appreciate people are not happy with EAGLE going subscription based for v8, there is no need for everybody to suddenly migrate all their systems to another package immediately as existing licenses will continue to be valid indefinitely. Yes you might not be willing to use the subscription based version, but there is plenty of time to see how things play out and, if needed, migrate to a package which suits your needs better.

Well spaketh!

I'm not switching to Kicad - I have too much invested in Eagle to do
something as brash as changing CAD programs. However, I will have to
live with v7.7 for some time.

Enjoy,
- Chuck
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