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Home » CadSoft Support Forums » eagle.support.eng » Eagle upgrade costs
Eagle upgrade costs [message #168255] Tue, 10 January 2017 12:15 Go to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
I use the Make version of Eagle - something I may now come to regret versus starting with an open source package from the beginning.

I am not using the software for commercial use, rather for DIY audio electronics.  But I now need a board area greater than 16cm x 10cm. For my current project, I need about 20cm of length.  There appears to be nothing between Make and Ultimate for commercial use (with or without Autorouter which I do not use).

I wanted to check the upgrade cost yet when I enter my user license online to get an instant quote for upgrading  I merely get the  cost of buying a version from scratch - including an option to buy what I already have for what I have already paid.  Rather daft.

How to get the correct upgrade costs?  And am I the only one that would like to see a non-commercial offering with a larger board area at a more sensible price? (I will never need 4m x 4m board area, nor more than 4 signal layers.)  This is the sort of thing which forces people to learn KiCad or another competitor product.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168256 is a reply to message #168255] Tue, 10 January 2017 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
Hi Steve,

I'm not 100% sure but I think, within the same version the cost of upgrading from one license to a higher one is the difference in the cost of the original licenses. I'm pretty sure that's how it used to be in any case. If you email sales@cadsoftusa.com (mailto:sales@cadsoftusa.com) or sales@cadsoft.de (mailto:sales@cadsoft.de) they'll be able to tell you the upgrade costs.

You are right there isn't currently anything in between which would help non-commercial people go larger than 16cm x 10cm. This has been discussed a few times before but has not yet been addressed by CADSoft/Autodesk. Possibly Autodesk may come up with a solution which will give the ability to do what you require.   from Autodesk may be able to answer whether this is something they are looking to address. The problem is they won't want to do anything that will cannibalise their sales of the Ultimate version, which is a competitively priced product for the professional end of the market. For me I can't justify the cost of Mentor, Cadence or Altium products and they don't offer the flexibility I would like anyway, so EAGLE Ultimate is the ideal license for my needs. KiCAD is probably getting a lot better now that it's had heavy CERN investment but last time I tried to use it I didn't find anything compelling to make we want to switch and I have high hopes for v8 being a big step forwards for EAGLE.

I had an idea for EAGLE that possibly they could do the licensing (for non-commercial at least) on a routing area basis rather than a board area basis. Therefore if you only 2 layers rather than 4 you could do twice the board area but with a restriction that you couldn't add any more layers. Whether that is a viable option or even sensible is for Autodesk to decide I guess.

Best regards,

Rachael

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168257 is a reply to message #168256] Tue, 10 January 2017 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
Hi. Thanks I will email them.  It would be good if mattbergren can comment as the leap to Ultimate for DIY use is preventatively expensive. Regretfully I'm about to start watching KiCad tutorials.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168258 is a reply to message #168257] Tue, 10 January 2017 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
It looks like Element14 won't be selling EAGLE v7 for much longer either. If you look at the product page for EAGLE Ultimate it says they aren't accepting any new orders after 12th Jan and that Autodesk will be making an announcement on the future of EAGLE. See here: https://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-69941/l/eagle-ultimate

It might be worth seeing what Autodesk announce before you invest too much time in KiCAD tutorials. My guess is it'll be a v8 announcement.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168261 is a reply to message #168258] Tue, 10 January 2017 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geralds
Messages: 216
Registered: February 2014
Senior Member
Wow, what a message.


I don't know about it, because on Cadsofts / Autodesks website there is no information about this game.

Last year I asked in the Cadsoft Support forum, whether I can upgrade my Eagle version 6.6.0 PRO directly to version 8 Ultimate (Pro, as old attribute). There was no answer, nothing until today.
Because the version 7 has no significant features about version 6.6.0, I wanted to save a version.
Currently I work with 6.6.0 PRO and 7.7.0 Express (this is just for compatibility to the lib files).

And now I may not even get the new version as an upgrade if Autodesk makes any announcements after the 12th of January.

Gerald
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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168265 is a reply to message #168257] Tue, 10 January 2017 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/10/2017 7:47 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> Hi. Thanks I will email them. It would be good if mattbergren can comment as the leap to Ultimate for DIY use is preventatively expensive. Regretfully I'm about to start watching KiCad tutorials.
>
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>

Hi Steve,

You should see some improvements in the pricing starting next week. The
site has given some incorrect prices as of late so we should these
issues addressed very soon.

I'd say check the pricing next week, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168267 is a reply to message #168265] Tue, 10 January 2017 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
Hi.  Okay - hopefully I will be VERY pleasantly surprised.  ;) One can only justify so much expense for a hobby without expectations of commercial reward.  I can not imagine ever needing a board 1/10th (1/20th even) of the size afforded by Ultimate.  On the other hand, 100mm x 80mm isn't even big enough for a quality DIY audio amplifier power supply.  The board I would like to be working on now has a target size of roughly 75mm x 200mm. At a real stretch I might imagine a need for 100mm x 400mm but that would be the outer limits.  And no more than 4 layers.

To the 12th!

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168278 is a reply to message #168255] Thu, 12 January 2017 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eaglecandies
Messages: 186
Registered: September 2011
Location: Cincinnati
Senior Member
You can use some tricks and special editing commands to make a larger board if you really need to, however, it is much easier to upgrade Eagle to the size you need. Hopefully the new pricing/versions will favor your project & include the improvements we've been hoping for.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168281 is a reply to message #168255] Thu, 12 January 2017 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
Looking on the cadsoft.io website this morning there is now a big splash screen saying the biggest release of EAGLE to date is coming soon. Judging by the snippets shown on that screen I have to say I am really looking forward to this release!

Best Regards,

Rachael
icon7.gif  Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168288 is a reply to message #168255] Fri, 13 January 2017 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rickb
Messages: 15
Registered: March 2016
Location: Junction City, OR USA
Junior Member
All mention of pricing has been removed. Must be free, right? Very Happy
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168394 is a reply to message #168288] Thu, 19 January 2017 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
So to do a little 4-layer board it now costs me *$500 a year*?  I must be missing something.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-new-eagle-subscription-has- landed/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTUdOak5XUTBORE5tTURJN ( http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-new-eagle-subscription-has- landed/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTUdOak5XUTBORE5tTURJNSIsInQiOiJ6QW5EWUFrZm9ZRVd1RXN 1UE04SFl4bnNsa0NFTUxnQ3hLMFwvS2ZhQ1A1cnRhaUlBa0ZqZzhBZVFIUTRMNHdybXgxV1J0aW w4WEVxYjNSZWZZUmFrdTdITjNIN1d2Z1AwelVZSzQ1SGdZTEVkdUhoQ20zU2pDZnRNMFFnYUJWa 1wvIn0%3D)

And who the hell pays the equivalent of $3.50 for an espresso?

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168395 is a reply to message #168394] Thu, 19 January 2017 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
Actually make that $572.81 a year!

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168397 is a reply to message #168394] Thu, 19 January 2017 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rk
Messages: 386
Registered: February 2005
Senior Member
Am 19.01.2017 um 17:06 schrieb Steve Kale:
> So to do a little 4-layer board it now costs me *$500 a year*? I must be missing something.

No, you're not missing something. EAGLE just got super expensive.
Alternatively, you can subscribe on a monthly basis. When you're done
with your board, you stop the subscription. Then, later on, you can
subscribe again when needed. And unsubscribe. And subscribe. And
unsubscribe.

Isn't that a wonderful new era?
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168399 is a reply to message #168395] Thu, 19 January 2017 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
This is hilarious:

Quote:
For others, well, if you’re a coffee-lover, the affordability illustration below could be a wake-up call!


It ought to be a wakeup call for the idiot that can't draw or label a graph...

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168402 is a reply to message #168397] Thu, 19 January 2017 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
Even doing that, $65 a board (more if you are detected as resident in the UK) kills this for the hobbyist/casual user.

Looks like I am done with Eagle and have to learn a new software product for everything other than small 2 layer boards.   Cost of fab has plummeted.  Cost of design just soared.  Here's hoping the Chinese begin to compete effectively in software as well...

Jorge, perhaps you have a different definition of "pleasantly" than I do.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168428 is a reply to message #168399] Thu, 19 January 2017 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 1/19/2017 11:20 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> This is hilarious:
>
> Quote:
For others, well, if you’re a coffee-lover, the affordability illustration below could be a wake-up call!

>
> It ought to be a wakeup call for the idiot that can't draw or label a graph...
>
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>

Hello Steve,

I hope you're doing well. If you are a student you are entitled to the
Full Premium version for free. You can set that up by going to
students.autodesk.com.

That was kind of the trade off with the more limited version standard.

Also we have a new forum up at forums.autodesk.com so users can start
participating there as well.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168453 is a reply to message #168428] Thu, 19 January 2017 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Morrison
Messages: 1129
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member

Jorge Garcia wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 18:28
On 1/19/2017 11:20 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> This is hilarious:
>
> Quote:
For others, well, if you're a coffee-lover, the affordability illustration below could be a wake-up call!

>
> It ought to be a wakeup call for the idiot that can't draw or label a graph...
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> https://www.element14.com/community/message/213497
>

Hello Steve,

I hope you're doing well. If you are a student you are entitled to the
Full Premium version for free. You can set that up by going to
students.autodesk.com.

That was kind of the trade off with the more limited version standard.

Also we have a new forum up at forums.autodesk.com so users can start
participating there as well.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia


Jorge, are those forums syncing to the NNTP support forums?

James.


James Morrison ~~~ Stratford Digital
http://www.stratforddigital.ca
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #168454 is a reply to message #168453] Thu, 19 January 2017 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
> Jorge, are those forums syncing to the NNTP support forums?
>
> James.
>

Hi James,

They are not syncing up at this moment, there are still a few things
that need to be worked on.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169355 is a reply to message #168255] Sat, 11 February 2017 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Ryan
Messages: 2
Registered: February 2017
Junior Member
Is there going to be a credit for those of us who have an older license when moving to the new subscription model?

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169367 is a reply to message #169355] Sun, 12 February 2017 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
Paul Ryan wrote on Sat, 11 February 2017 15:01
Is there going to be a credit for those of us who have an older license when moving to the new subscription model?

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What license do you currently have? I believe there is currently a 50% discount on 1 year subscriptions for existing v7 license holders.

Best Regards,

Rachael
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169368 is a reply to message #169367] Sun, 12 February 2017 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guillaume barrey[1]
Messages: 260
Registered: July 2013
Senior Member
Hello,

Even with a 50% of reduction on 1 year subscription, it will be '*+no thank for me+*'.

Sorry guys, but you when to far for me, an also for my boss...
I have my own private pro license (as hobbyist) and at work, I use the license of my company. I will not migrate to the V8 version and I think that my boss will probably to the same.

1.If you want to buy a car you don't go to a rent office.
I want to buy a license, no to rent it, and that is not negotiable. So if Eagle licenses are not for sale anymore, but only for renting, then I guess that I will simply don't go to the Eagle sales offices ! (simple!)

2. Until now I didn't use the autorouter, and so I never bought it. Now I will not have the choice any more, and so the price is absolutely not the same !
I dislike this way of forcing to buy something you don't want to, so I avoid those situations. Then I guess that, starting from now, I will avoid Eagle....

3.To force people to create an account and to connect to Autodesk server every 14 days... Woww That a real improvement ! That was the most critical problem of Eagle v7 !!!! lol
a- No one can force me to create a account if I don"t want to.
b- I don't want to give any single personal single data on me, on a account I don't want to create, account on a web site of a company I will not trust any more !
c- I use Eagle on a PC that is not and will not be connected on internet (for security issues) so... I'm screwed. At least I would understand an activation by internet, once during installation, but every 14 days: this a joke ?

4. Just a little thing, I'm concern about protecting software since I work in a company that provide software ! We use different ways of protecting our products (we develop our own USB protecting dongle, or we can propose the use of license server etc... )
But  we :
a- propose to our customer different solutions of protection (dongle, licensee server etc ..) and he could choose the one; we don't impose just one.
b- we never (and probably ever) don't use the +*rent only model*+. A license is for SALE and a the maintenance/support contract is a RENT. Both are separate things.
     WE NEVER IMPOSE THE MAINTENANCE CONTRACT to a customer who buy a license !
     why ?
     By using the renting only model you just force your customers to have a maintenance contract, and worse, the licensee will perish at the end of the period !


I may be wrong but I think you just lose the trust between you and some of your customers (2 at least: me and my boss).

Believe me you don't have to impose a subscription. As I said, my company SELL licenses that will never expire. And we also propose a maintenance contract (with support, updates etc...) but only for customer who want it !
And guess what ?
In more than 95% of purchased licenses, customers also take out a maintenance contract !

Why ?
A - We listen to their needs, and don't sell what they don't need !
B - They have the feeling of not been attached, of having the choice.
C - TRUST
D - the quality, the performance etc...
...
Z - Certainly NOT because that we impose it !

So bye bye Eagle.

I think that I will continue for a while with the Eagle V7, then I will try other software.... But I will not continue to invest my time with Eagle....

Note that I did not said that I will change my decision if you change your policy, because I think I wouldn't. 
Simple because, I don't trust  Eagle anymore, so... I would certainly prefer to use my time to learn another software...

Sorry,

Guillaume Barrey


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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169370 is a reply to message #169368] Sun, 12 February 2017 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Georges De man
Messages: 1
Registered: February 2017
Junior Member
I agree with all the above
Since 10 years I upgraded every time, but that is gone forever

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169371 is a reply to message #169370] Sun, 12 February 2017 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
I just finished my first board in KiCad...

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169372 is a reply to message #169368] Sun, 12 February 2017 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geralds
Messages: 216
Registered: February 2014
Senior Member
Hi,
Absolutely with you.


And the madness is at the end of the license period:
The software will fall back to the free demo version with 80 cm² and 2 layers, it will a kids toy.


If you have an active project in the middle, for example a PCB 350x300 mm with 6 layers, then the license from this day
to the next day in the middle of the month, working in the project, the software no longer works, then you can lock your company .
- "goo...ood morning Boss!", "yesterday the software worked, today it doesn't!, ... why?" B-)
Wow, great fine, AutoDesk will say: "please pay, or pray... otherwise it will not continue ..!";
Your customer will say "tomorrow the project must be finished ...!";
And you, midway between both ..... "poff", ! [watch?v=Sif5LKP9-W4] atomic explosion!

Regards,
Gerald
---

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169373 is a reply to message #168255] Sun, 12 February 2017 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
picfve
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2015
Location: Denmark
Junior Member
Yes i'am out too. For 10 years i have payed for eagle, but not anymore!

http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/t/53163/93892d75c2002746fa04a2e530476f12/
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169380 is a reply to message #169368] Mon, 13 February 2017 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joern Paschedag
Messages: 1429
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Am 12.02.2017 um 14:10 schrieb Guillaume barrey:
> Hello,
>
> Even with a 50% of reduction on 1 year subscription, it will be '*+no thank for me+*'.
>
> Sorry guys, but you when to far for me, an also for my boss...
> I have my own private pro license (as hobbyist) and at work, I use the license of my company. I will not migrate to the V8 version and I think that my boss will probably to the same.
>
> 1.If you want to buy a car you don't go to a rent office.
> I want to buy a license, no to rent it, and that is not negotiable. So if Eagle licenses are not for sale anymore, but only for renting, then I guess that I will simply don't go to the Eagle sales offices ! (simple!)
>
> 2. Until now I didn't use the autorouter, and so I never bought it. Now I will not have the choice any more, and so the price is absolutely not the same !
> I dislike this way of forcing to buy something you don't want to, so I avoid those situations. Then I guess that, starting from now, I will avoid Eagle....
>
> 3.To force people to create an account and to connect to Autodesk server every 14 days... Woww That a real improvement ! That was the most critical problem of Eagle v7 !!!! lol
> a- No one can force me to create a account if I don"t want to.
> b- I don't want to give any single personal single data on me, on a account I don't want to create, account on a web site of a company I will not trust any more !
> c- I use Eagle on a PC that is not and will not be connected on internet (for security issues) so... I'm screwed. At least I would understand an activation by internet, once during installation, but every 14 days: this a joke ?
>
> 4. Just a little thing, I'm concern about protecting software since I work in a company that provide software ! We use different ways of protecting our products (we develop our own USB protecting dongle, or we can propose the use of license server etc... )
> But we :
> a- propose to our customer different solutions of protection (dongle, licensee server etc ..) and he could choose the one; we don't impose just one.
> b- we never (and probably ever) don't use the +*rent only model*+. A license is for SALE and a the maintenance/support contract is a RENT. Both are separate things.
> WE NEVER IMPOSE THE MAINTENANCE CONTRACT to a customer who buy a license !
> why ?
> By using the renting only model you just force your customers to have a maintenance contract, and worse, the licensee will perish at the end of the period !
>
>
> I may be wrong but I think you just lose the trust between you and some of your customers (2 at least: me and my boss).
>
> Believe me you don't have to impose a subscription. As I said, my company SELL licenses that will never expire. And we also propose a maintenance contract (with support, updates etc...) but only for customer who want it !
> And guess what ?
> In more than 95% of purchased licenses, customers also take out a maintenance contract !
>
> Why ?
> A - We listen to their needs, and don't sell what they don't need !
> B - They have the feeling of not been attached, of having the choice.
> C - TRUST
> D - the quality, the performance etc...
> ...
> Z - Certainly NOT because that we impose it !
>
> So bye bye Eagle.
>
> I think that I will continue for a while with the Eagle V7, then I will try other software.... But I will not continue to invest my time with Eagle....
>
> Note that I did not said that I will change my decision if you change your policy, because I think I wouldn't.
> Simple because, I don't trust Eagle anymore, so... I would certainly prefer to use my time to learn another software...
>
> Sorry,
>
> Guillaume Barrey
>
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> https://www.element14.com/community/message/215742
>

Ladies and Gentlemen,
certainly I see what is going on but actually I don't understand it.
Autodesk (AD) has owned eagle and changed the license models.
They have the right to do so even if I don't like it.

AD has not changed electronic components (and can not do it) so that
only eagle v.8 can handle it.
I know people that use V.4 and V.5 still today without problems. So
think about that.
Unfortunately owners of acquired smaller companies try to adapt them to
their own scheme and forget the old word "Never change a running system".

IMHO eagle was a good running system, but now...

I shall, at least for some time, continue with my perpetual license,
because during the years working with eagle I have developed a lot of
libraries, imho an investment of time that would be lost.
AD stands for their opinion, I stand for mine.
Goodbye eagle.

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169383 is a reply to message #169373] Mon, 13 February 2017 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Ryan
Messages: 2
Registered: February 2017
Junior Member
In my view, there needs to be a middle option -- something like 4 layer/200x200mm/10 sheets/no autorouter, for say, $250/yr. As it is, $500/yr means I'll be sticking with my old perpetual license and trying out Kicad for new projects.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169389 is a reply to message #168397] Tue, 14 February 2017 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Berggren
Messages: 34
Registered: November 2016
Member
HI Guys --

The 4 layer version of EAGLE Standard (8.0.1) was just released.  You can get a 4-layer commercial license of EAGLE for $100/yr.  Thanks for the feedback!

Best regards,

Matt

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169390 is a reply to message #169389] Tue, 14 February 2017 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antti Louko
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2007
Junior Member
Matt Berggren wrote:
> HI Guys --
>
> The 4 layer version of EAGLE Standard (8.0.1) was just released. You can get a 4-layer commercial license of EAGLE for $100/yr. Thanks for the feedback!

Actually no. In Europe, it is EUR 110 which is more than USD 100. And you
force us Europeans to the Euro store.

And I just found out that now I can get 4 layers but the area restriction, which
seems to allow 160 cm^2, doesn't still allow negative coordinates, which would
be useful for certain projects, where 0,0 is the logical centerpoint for the PCB.

It is frustrating to put 15 EUR for this just to find out that you still haven't
got all pieces together!

Subscription model is the most annoying aspect of this.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169391 is a reply to message #169390] Tue, 14 February 2017 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Kale
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2014
Junior Member
$119 if you are in the UK.

Does the 160cm^2 size allow a board of, for example, 5cm x 30cm or is dimensionally restricted?

(Having seen how easy it is to migrate to KiCad I'm not sure even this is worth the money.)

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169400 is a reply to message #169391] Tue, 14 February 2017 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 2/14/2017 5:25 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> $119 if you are in the UK.
>
> Does the 160cm^2 size allow a board of, for example, 5cm x 30cm or is dimensionally restricted?
>
> (Having seen how easy it is to migrate to KiCad I'm not sure even this is worth the money.)
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
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>

Hi Steve,

I hope you're doing well. The area limitation is based on area so 5cm x
30cm would work just fine. Under the previous licensing mechanism it was
restricted to a fixed 16cm x 10cm board.

Hope this helps.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169403 is a reply to message #169400] Wed, 15 February 2017 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antti Louko
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2007
Junior Member
Jorge Garcia wrote:

> I hope you're doing well. The area limitation is based on area so 5cm x 30cm
> would work just fine. Under the previous licensing mechanism it was restricted
> to a fixed 16cm x 10cm board.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Yes,

Back to my comment: Why don't negative coordinates work?
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169409 is a reply to message #169403] Wed, 15 February 2017 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 2/15/2017 1:48 AM, Antti Louko wrote:
> Jorge Garcia wrote:
>
>> I hope you're doing well. The area limitation is based on area so 5cm x 30cm
>> would work just fine. Under the previous licensing mechanism it was restricted
>> to a fixed 16cm x 10cm board.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
>
> Yes,
>
> Back to my comment: Why don't negative coordinates work?
>

Hi Antti,

EAGLE still enforces size limited by requiring that you stay in the
positive x and y axes.

You can use a relative origin to define a center for boards where you
would want the center of the board to be, you can then reference all of
the coordinates to that relative origin.

That's how it works right now.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169410 is a reply to message #169409] Wed, 15 February 2017 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antti Louko
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2007
Junior Member
Jorge Garcia wrote:

> EAGLE still enforces size limited by requiring that you stay in the positive x
> and y axes.
>
> You can use a relative origin to define a center for boards where you would want
> the center of the board to be, you can then reference all of the coordinates to
> that relative origin.

It doesn't really help as Info still gives just absolute coordinates and not
relative coordinates! And I cannot place a component with Info dialog with
relative coordinates, or is it possible?

> That's how it works right now.

It would be really easy to fix:

Instead of

if ((max_x**2 + max_y**2) > limit)
goto bummer;

just code:

if (((max_x-min_x)**2 + (max_y-min_y)**2) > limit)
goto bummer;

Current limitation is just lazy coding.

> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Get this fixed, please. As it is now, the feature presentation "Includes 99
schematic sheets, 4 signal layers, and 160 cm2 board area" is misleading.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169411 is a reply to message #169410] Wed, 15 February 2017 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
On 2/15/2017 6:10 PM, Antti Louko wrote:
> Jorge Garcia wrote:
>
>> EAGLE still enforces size limited by requiring that you stay in the positive x
>> and y axes.
>>
>> You can use a relative origin to define a center for boards where you would want
>> the center of the board to be, you can then reference all of the coordinates to
>> that relative origin.
>
> It doesn't really help as Info still gives just absolute coordinates and not
> relative coordinates! And I cannot place a component with Info dialog with
> relative coordinates, or is it possible?
>
>> That's how it works right now.
>
> It would be really easy to fix:
>
> Instead of
>
> if ((max_x**2 + max_y**2) > limit)
> goto bummer;
>
> just code:
>
> if (((max_x-min_x)**2 + (max_y-min_y)**2) > limit)
> goto bummer;
>
> Current limitation is just lazy coding.
>
>> Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
>
> Get this fixed, please. As it is now, the feature presentation "Includes 99
> schematic sheets, 4 signal layers, and 160 cm2 board area" is misleading.
>

Hello Antti,

Moving components through the info dialog can get old kind of quick. You
can't specify relative coordinates in the Info dialog, however you can
specify relative locations easily following this procedure:

1. Left-Click Move icon
2. Left-Click on part, it will now be floating on your mouse cursor.
3. Type (R x-loc y-loc) and then hit enter. Where x-loc and y-loc are
the coordinates of the location you want referenced to the relative origin.

Hope this helps,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169412 is a reply to message #169411] Thu, 16 February 2017 00:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antti Louko
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2007
Junior Member
Jorge Garcia wrote:
> On 2/15/2017 6:10 PM, Antti Louko wrote:
>> Jorge Garcia wrote:

> Moving components through the info dialog can get old kind of quick. You can't
> specify relative coordinates in the Info dialog, however you can specify
> relative locations easily following this procedure:
>
> 1. Left-Click Move icon
> 2. Left-Click on part, it will now be floating on your mouse cursor.
> 3. Type (R x-loc y-loc) and then hit enter. Where x-loc and y-loc are the
> coordinates of the location you want referenced to the relative origin.
>
> Hope this helps,

Using Info dialog for moving relates usually to situations where one wants to
try different values for coordinates, angle and so on, using "Apply" to keep the
dialog open. The method you present, which is useful for some other situations,
doesn't really help here.

And still, I cannot get the relative coordinates for easy copy for pasting it
elsewhere.

So please fix this.

I paid for one month for testing Eagle 8 and it is expiring soon. There is
little motivation to pay more.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169422 is a reply to message #169412] Thu, 16 February 2017 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorge Garcia
Messages: 1291
Registered: April 2010
Senior Member
> Using Info dialog for moving relates usually to situations where one wants to
> try different values for coordinates, angle and so on, using "Apply" to keep the
> dialog open. The method you present, which is useful for some other situations,
> doesn't really help here.
>
> And still, I cannot get the relative coordinates for easy copy for pasting it
> elsewhere.
>
> So please fix this.
>
> I paid for one month for testing Eagle 8 and it is expiring soon. There is
> little motivation to pay more.
>
>

Hi Antti,

Thanks for your feedback, what you are asking for a is a new feature and
not a fix.

The INFO dialog always works with the absolute origin. I'll create an
enhancement request so that the info dialog can reference the relative
origin.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169534 is a reply to message #169380] Tue, 21 February 2017 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neon John
Messages: 18
Registered: October 2016
Junior Member
On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 10:03:34 +0100, Joern Paschedag
<jpaschedag@t-online.de> wrote:


> AD has not changed electronic components (and can not do it) so that
> only eagle v.8 can handle it.

Sure they have. Try opening a V7 drawing in an earlier version. You
can't. That's why I have to keep V4 and up installed on my machine.

The REAL problem comes when you find a project on the net or in a
magazine that you'd like to use some part of. Saves reinventing the
wheel. The project is usually posted in the current Eagle format. So
you have to have that version installed. And Eagle doesn't let one
back-port to an earlier version so if you want to cut a piece out of
the project schematic and paste it in yours, you're SOL.

> Unfortunately owners of acquired smaller companies try to adapt them to
> their own scheme and forget the old word "Never change a running system".

SOP for AutoDesk. Perhaps some of you CadSoft people can ask around
and find out what AutoDesk did to MoldFlow. Hint: It isn't pretty!!!

> I shall, at least for some time, continue with my perpetual license,
> because during the years working with eagle I have developed a lot of
> libraries, imho an investment of time that would be lost.
> AD stands for their opinion, I stand for mine.
> Goodbye eagle.

My approach is to convert us over to KiCAD now and convert Eagle
library entries only as they are needed.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169561 is a reply to message #169534] Wed, 22 February 2017 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joern Paschedag
Messages: 1429
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Am 21.02.2017 um 21:37 schrieb Neon John:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 10:03:34 +0100, Joern Paschedag
> <jpaschedag@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>
>> AD has not changed electronic components (and can not do it) so that
>> only eagle v.8 can handle it.
>
> Sure they have. Try opening a V7 drawing in an earlier version. You
> can't. That's why I have to keep V4 and up installed on my machine.
>
NO they did not.
What you mean is to open newer files with newer eagle versions but that
has nothing to do with electronics itself.
Actually one "never" could directly open newer files with older programs
since they contain "features" the older programs didn't know. As simple
as that.

> The REAL problem comes when you find a project on the net or in a
> magazine that you'd like to use some part of. Saves reinventing the
> wheel. The project is usually posted in the current Eagle format. So
> you have to have that version installed. And Eagle doesn't let one
> back-port to an earlier version so if you want to cut a piece out of
> the project schematic and paste it in yours, you're SOL.

Here you might be right for the hobbyist, for the pros you are
definitely not.

>
>> Unfortunately owners of acquired smaller companies try to adapt them to
>> their own scheme and forget the old word "Never change a running system".
>
> SOP for AutoDesk. Perhaps some of you CadSoft people can ask around
> and find out what AutoDesk did to MoldFlow. Hint: It isn't pretty!!!
>
>> I shall, at least for some time, continue with my perpetual license,
>> because during the years working with eagle I have developed a lot of
>> libraries, imho an investment of time that would be lost.
>> AD stands for their opinion, I stand for mine.
>> Goodbye eagle.
>
> My approach is to convert us over to KiCAD now and convert Eagle
> library entries only as they are needed.
>
> John
> John DeArmond
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.tnduction.com
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> See website for email address
>


--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169682 is a reply to message #169368] Fri, 24 February 2017 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
levafreidin
Messages: 10
Registered: June 2011
Junior Member
      Guillaume, I share your outrage.
I used EAGLE since it was version 2.6, under DOS, and I did fall  in love to it from first hour I try it.
I would like to have a little bit more colors and more RF/microwave support... but now EAGLE is dead for me.
I still have my own 4.16r2, 5.12, 6.6 and 7.7  versions licenses
(they works under Windows-7 and -10, so I am supported for few more years),
I forced Boston Scientific to buy three licenses 6.6 version, I tried to force them to upgrade... not anymore!
So they lost    me (Sensible Electronics),
                              Boston Scientific and
                              PinMed (I worked for them, too, they were ready to buy EAGLE).
     But do not blame them (AutoDesk) to be stupid: I think, they *killed EAGLE intentionally*.
Maybe they feel a competition became dangerous, maybe third party paid them...
Look: *1)* they promise to make improvements, but people report the improvements do not work. Why?
              I think they rid out from few persons of the old team (maybe laid them off with very good service pack)
              - "accidentally" it appears they were the key persons, so nobody could "improve" the software;
         *2)* *Everybody (include AutoDesk)* understand: if license expire, it will be not possible to maintain old projects,
              no more support for old customers - so who will pay for destroying his own reputation?

*Can you recommend the adequate replacement of EAGLE?*

          Sincerely yours,
                 Lev Freidin, Electronics Engineer
                      (from DC to digital and *microwave*, so I have to make layout on my own).
                                  levafreidin@netscape.net (mailto:levafreidin@netscape.net), (805)-750-0665 cell.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169697 is a reply to message #169682] Fri, 24 February 2017 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uwe Bonnes
Messages: 339
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
levafreidin <noreply-59652@element14.com> wrote:
....
> *Can you recommend the adequate replacement of EAGLE?*

Use an eagle Versiin below 8 ...
--
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Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169715 is a reply to message #169682] Sat, 25 February 2017 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guillaume barrey[1]
Messages: 260
Registered: July 2013
Senior Member
Hello,

I don't know if Autodesk plan to kill Eagle or do it 'accidentally' but to tell the truth, I don't really care... only the result matters.


> *Can you recommend the adequate replacement of EAGLE?*

I asked myself the same question and I don't really have a straight forward answer to that question... I just can only share my reflexion about that:

Today Eagle 7.7 is enough for my usage, even is some improvement are missing. They are missing for so long now... I quite used to that missing things.

Today Eagle 7.7 still work on my Linux and my W7 windows:
- At work I'm still using W7 but one day the TI department will proceed to a change to W10. and Eagle 7.7 seems to work fine on W10.
- For my personal license, I use a W7 on a very old PC that will not support any OS upgrade, but I My principal computer run under Linux (Opensuse) and I keep this one, up to date.
In both case Eagle 7.7 still run but one day it will become problematic, this day is quite far from now.

Meanwhile I have a look on other alternatives such as Kicad (I discover that it was created by a guy who work in the same city as me....that funny !)
I just have a look, and I have the impression that on some points Eagle is far better, but on the other hand it's the opposite.
I still have some interrogation about Kicad, mainly about library management (is it possible to connect several pads of package to a single symbol pin ?, is it possible ti add descriptions etc...)
I also see that the import of Packages from Eagle library to Kicad ones is already present, but for the symbols and device, import is not yet working... but they are working on it...

Last point, I work in very small electronic department (the design office consist on 1 person: me) and I have to deal with a lot of other task that routing a board (firmware to develop, mechanical parts to design, software to setup our products, benchmark to test our product etc...)
So I can not afford to spend too much time in learning a new software.

So in my humble opinion, it's urgent to do nothing drastic.

I will keep in mind that one day I will have troubles with Eagle, and so I have to look around for an other software.
Since it's free, I will start to try Kicad on small personal projects, and see what it's capable of, and begin to learn how to use it.
If it's not that bad, maybe one day, I will be able to import library from Eagle to Kicad (even if I know that this will not be that simple...) an proceed to the big Jump !

And if Kicad it's not good enough, then I guess I would have to see something else.

Meanwhile I will continue to use Eagle on bigger projects.

Anyway, I do not have any trust in cadsoft/Autodesk now, and even they go back to the previous licensing scheme, I think I will not pay any Euro or whatever to them.

If you have better ideas or suggestion, I would be glad if you let us know !

Guillaume.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169717 is a reply to message #169715] Sat, 25 February 2017 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Guillaume barrey wrote:
>
> So in my humble opinion, it's urgent to do nothing drastic.
I agree with this totally. v7 works well and can still be a good tool for many years to come.

> Guillaume barrey wrote:
>
> Anyway, I do not have any trust in cadsoft/Autodesk now, and even they go back to the previous licensing scheme, I think I will not pay any Euro or whatever to them.
Personally I wouldn't write them off totally. I don't think what has happened has been a decision made by those Autodesk employees posting on here, I suspect they posted what they posted in good faith and the decision was made higher up the food chain at corporate level by those that have no realisation of the negative impact their decisions make to customers and they were overruled. This is just my personal opinion of what happened and again, to be clear I have no insider knowledge of Autodesk as I am not an employee (before I get accused of being one yet again!).

If Autodesk corporate have a change in policy and start to allow other licensing types again then things might change for the better and if a really excellent newer version of EAGLE came out that you could get a perpetual license for then you might find yourself in a situation where upgrading to it was the smart business decision and then you too would have to do a complete u-turn and eat a slice of humble pie ;)

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169718 is a reply to message #169717] Sat, 25 February 2017 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guillaume barrey[1]
Messages: 260
Registered: July 2013
Senior Member
Hello Rachel,

Thank you for your response and I completely understand your point of view. I right, maybe future will bring a really nice great Eagle version, with permanent licensing scheme, possibility to choose to buy *or not* the auto-router feature etc......
And you right too, I may I will buy it.

But, as I said, the trust is some thing you build slowly in a long term relationship, that can be destroyed as fast as a finger snapping.
And worse, it's far longer to rebuild a trust that had been destroyed than to build it from scratch with someone new.

The second problem is that in that particular case, there is an impression of been hostage.  Let me explain it (with my bad English, sorry guys ...).
Working with this kind of software is a huge time and work investment. Like other software you have to learn it. But you also build your libraries. And that is a huge precious thing.
So when you have to choose which software you will use you have to be sure that this investment  will not be crushed or locked by a bunch of financial directors in a huge company that don't care about your time and work.

In a word: I can not say that I will never buy a new eagle version again... it's just that it would not be that easy, and a simple fantastic new version would not be enough.

And directors should have though about that BEFORE destroying the trust of their customer.... it would be easier for Casdsoft....

Guillaume

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169720 is a reply to message #169718] Sat, 25 February 2017 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rk
Messages: 386
Registered: February 2005
Senior Member
Am 25.02.2017 um 12:29 schrieb Guillaume barrey:
> And directors should have though about that BEFORE destroying the trust of their customer.... it would be easier for Casdsoft....

I'm quite confident that this was well thought of. They were fully aware
that they would loose the majority of the existing customer base. This
is where the price-explosion comes into play: You need only a few people
stupid enough to support this nonsense and everything is fine again. And
it gets even better with every *new* user.

Expect it to stay as it is.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169721 is a reply to message #169720] Sat, 25 February 2017 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
rk wrote on Sat, 25 February 2017 13:36
Am 25.02.2017 um 12:29 schrieb Guillaume barrey:
> And directors should have though about that BEFORE destroying the trust of their customer.... it would be easier for Casdsoft....

I'm quite confident that this was well thought of. They were fully aware
that they would loose the majority of the existing customer base. This
is where the price-explosion comes into play: You need only a few people
stupid enough to support this nonsense
and everything is fine again. And
it gets even better with every *new* user.

Expect it to stay as it is.


It's comments like this that are contributing to further fracturing the community and it's really not productive.

You can choose to deal with the changes in EAGLE licensing how you see fit for your situation, but you are not in any position to brand other people stupid because they don't necessarily agree with your point of view. Many perhaps don't like it but equally don't want to throw away years of experience and investment in their setup, libraries etc. Please have respect for the opinions of others.

Best Regards,

Rachael
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169725 is a reply to message #169721] Sat, 25 February 2017 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rk
Messages: 386
Registered: February 2005
Senior Member
Am 25.02.2017 um 14:46 schrieb Rachael:
> perhaps don't like it but equally don't want to throw away years of
> experience and investment in their setup, libraries etc. Please have

So if I don't subscribe I'm doomed to throw away my experience,
libraries, setup and so on? Why?
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169726 is a reply to message #169725] Sat, 25 February 2017 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 551
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
rk wrote on Sat, 25 February 2017 14:20
Am 25.02.2017 um 14:46 schrieb Rachael:
> perhaps don't like it but equally don't want to throw away years of
> experience and investment in their setup, libraries etc. Please have

So if I don't subscribe I'm doomed to throw away my experience,
libraries, setup and so on? Why?


You know full well that's not what I was saying. You're just annoyed because I called you out for calling people stupid.

But to answer your question, no you are not doomed to throw anything away because you don't subscribe. You can still use the existing version of EAGLE you have indefinitely. Some people will subscribe, some will stick with what they have, I'm personally sticking with v7 and waiting until I see how things progress, other people are however actively migrating to other packages. Each to their own, everybody has to do what is right for them and calling people stupid for their choice isn't really on.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169729 is a reply to message #169697] Sat, 25 February 2017 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neon John
Messages: 18
Registered: October 2016
Junior Member
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:20:54 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes
<bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

> levafreidin <noreply-59652@element14.com> wrote:
> ...
>> *Can you recommend the adequate replacement of EAGLE?*
>
> Use an eagle Versiin below 8 ...

Be sure to use the Linux version. The commercial OS vendors will ease
your version right out from under you in a couple of years.

The Linux philosophy is not to break things. I use Ubuntu Linux and
have Eagle 4, 5, 6 and 7 installed on Rev 16.04 LTS.

Really though, you're better off using a package under active
development that will keep up with OS changes. My new choice is
KiCAD.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169730 is a reply to message #169721] Sat, 25 February 2017 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neon John
Messages: 18
Registered: October 2016
Junior Member
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:46:15 +0000, Rachael <rachael@rachellie.co.uk>
wrote:


> You can choose to deal with the changes in EAGLE licensing how you see fit
> for your situation, but you are not in any position to brand other people
> stupid because they don't necessarily agree with your point of view. Many
> perhaps don't like it but equally don't want to throw away years of
> experience and investment in their setup, libraries etc. Please have
> respect for the opinions of others.

I'm too polite to use the word "stupid" but I think that people who
rely on an AutoDesk product that AutoDesk has bought are using poor
judgement. AutoDesk is famous for buying up little companies and if
they don't "make the numbers", killing them off after sucking out
their guts.

With the mass migration away from Eagle that this rental scheme is
causing, there is no way I'm going to trust Eagle to make the numbers
and be around for the long haul. I have to have something that both I
and my customers can rely on.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169768 is a reply to message #169717] Mon, 27 February 2017 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chuck Huber
Messages: 593
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
On 02/25/2017 06:04 AM, rachaelp wrote:
>> Guillaume barrey wrote:
>>
>> So in my humble opinion, it's urgent to do nothing drastic.
> I agree with this totally. v7 works well and can still be a good tool for many years to come.
>
>> Guillaume barrey wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, I do not have any trust in cadsoft/Autodesk now, and even they go back to the previous licensing scheme, I think I will not pay any Euro or whatever to them.
....
> If Autodesk corporate have a change in policy and start to allow other licensing types again then things might change for the better and if a really excellent newer version of EAGLE came out that you could get a perpetual license for then you might find yourself in a situation where upgrading to it was the smart business decision and then you too would have to do a complete u-turn and eat a slice of humble pie ;)

Good morning, Rachael,

Humble pie? Well... not really. If one could get a perpetual license,
then it would not be a u-turn. It would be a return to terms that have
been acceptable for decades.

If there's one thing that my attorneys have drilled into me over the
course of time is that everything is negotiable - everything. I
occasionally joke that everything I own is for sale for the right price,
except my wife and my dogs - and on certain days we can talk about the
wife. On a more realistic note, I'm sure that if one were to walk into
Autodesk HQ and offer $500,000 in exchange for a perpetual license with
unlimited updates, Autodesk would find a way to do it. Perhaps that
wouldn't be enough... Perhaps a new personal jet for the Board would do
it. I'm not talking about a bribe; instead I'm referring to an
equitable exchange of value. I provide this, and in exchange they
provide that.

Autodesk might make a counter offer. It's all negotiable.

Much of the license chatter stems from the unilateral action Autodesk
took in changing to a subscription based license. In doing so, they did
not break any contracts. Nobody was legally bound to acquire a
subscription. The existing agreements applied strictly to the major
version under which it was issued. I say that the subscription action
was "unilateral" - more precisely, it was a different way of doing
business starting with V8, and is entirely within their prerogative to
do so.

Now, can anyone honestly claim that they truly didn't think this would
happen, even after knowing that nearly every other product offered by
Autodesk is on a subscription basis, and even despite what Matt claimed
back in July? The minute I learned that Autodesk bought Eagle, I knew
that it was only a matter of time before they wrapped their subscription
business model around it.

Nonetheless, Autodesk has a real public relations problem. They
unexpectedly made the announcement with the introduction of a new major
revision. They didn't offer any transition path for existing
customers. They just made a press release. Boom! It's out there. I'm
sure it's not unlike that which they faced when moving other products to
a subscription, and thus it is nothing new to them. The noise will pass...

I really expect that soon Eagle will no longer be called "Eagle". I
expect Autodesk will rebranded it. Rebranding is most likely already
in the works. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it didn't happen with V8 -
that would have been the better PR move.

As for a reasonable transition, perhaps a perpetual license should have
been made available exclusively to existing customers to ease the
transition. Something like: for the first year, offer existing
customers of 4 years or more (again, negotiable) perpetual licenses.
That would cover customers that have a significant investment in
designs. While Autodesk would miss the subscription revenue from this
customer set, they would have more than made up for it with PR.

As it is now, they have high-end engineers around the world that have
used Eagle for a long time (some for decades), that really don't have
anything positive to say.

Rachael, Like you, I'm sticking with the perpetual license for v7. When
I face a project that exceeds its capability, I will have to consider a
move to a different ECAD solution.

Best regards,
- Chuck
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #169778 is a reply to message #169715] Mon, 27 February 2017 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
levafreidin
Messages: 10
Registered: June 2011
Junior Member
Thank you!
I have V7.7, it works under Win7 and Win10, so I will follow you:
I will stay with EAGLE till it works, after that - switch to KiCAD.
      Thanks again. 
                   Sincerely yours,
                              Lev Freidin.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #170138 is a reply to message #169729] Thu, 23 March 2017 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Haselwood
Messages: 1
Registered: March 2017
Junior Member
John,

I'm trying to get my eagle version 4.13 running on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS on a 64b machine, but the window area with the schematic and board layout is blank, no matter what I do.  I did get the transparency issue resolved, but the inability to make anything appear in the work area window remains.  It appears to be a Ubuntu 16 issue as I do have an older machine running Ubuntu 14.04 and it is OK..  I wondered if you had that problem, and if so, what you did to fix it.   (I've tried all sorts of things I've found online having to do with the 32bit libs, but no success.)

As far as upgrade goes--my paid version 4.13 is quite satisfactory for what I do (retired, hobbyist).  It produces what I want for the boards and the notion of no additional cost for eagle upgrades just doesn't offer anything.  (In my experience, software upgrades offer the hope of something better, but instead replace of old, known problems with new problems yet to be discovered.)  Kicad is attractive, but I can hit the right keys with my eagle 4.1 automatically without looking/thinking so continuing with eagle 4.1 (and not a later version!) is quite desirable.

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Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #170140 is a reply to message #170138] Thu, 23 March 2017 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warrenbrayshaw
Messages: 1742
Registered: January 2010
Location: New Zealand
Senior Member
On 24/03/2017 6:40 a.m., Don Haselwood wrote:
> John,
>
> I'm trying to get my eagle version 4.13 running on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS on a 64b machine, but the window area with the schematic and board layout is blank, no matter what I do. I did get the transparency issue resolved, but the inability to make anything appear in the work area window remains. It appears to be a Ubuntu 16 issue as I do have an older machine running Ubuntu 14.04 and it is OK.. I wondered if you had that problem, and if so, what you did to fix it. (I've tried all sorts of things I've found online having to do with the 32bit libs, but no success.)
>
> As far as upgrade goes--my paid version 4.13 is quite satisfactory for what I do (retired, hobbyist). It produces what I want for the boards and the notion of no additional cost for eagle upgrades just doesn't offer anything. (In my experience, software upgrades offer the hope of something better, but instead replace of old, known problems with new problems yet to be discovered.) Kicad is attractive, but I can hit the right keys with my eagle 4.1 automatically without looking/thinking so continuing with eagle 4.1 (and not a later version!) is quite desirable.
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> https://www.element14.com/community/message/219285
>


Hi Don

Start by downloading the last point version of Eagle V4 (4.16r2) as your
licence qualifies you for it.

ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/4.16r2/

Then, I suspect there are some missing linux drivers that you will need
to locate. This has been a problem from time to time.

Others may be able to give you an exact answer.

Failing that search the forum. I suspect E14 is not the place to do
that. Search eagle central but let google do the heavy lifting when you
have multpile works you wish to search for. e.g

site:eaglecentral.ca "linux drivers" "missing"

HTH
Warren

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support forums.
Re: Eagle upgrade costs [message #170142 is a reply to message #170140] Fri, 24 March 2017 01:31 Go to previous message
Paul Romanyszyn
Messages: 856
Registered: December 2004
Senior Member
On 03/23/2017 02:45 PM, warrenbrayshaw wrote:
> On 24/03/2017 6:40 a.m., Don Haselwood wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> I'm trying to get my eagle version 4.13 running on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS on
>> a 64b machine, but the window area with the schematic and board layout
>> is blank, no matter what I do. I did get the transparency issue
>> resolved, but the inability to make anything appear in the work area
>> window remains. It appears to be a Ubuntu 16 issue as I do have an
>> older machine running Ubuntu 14.04 and it is OK.. I wondered if you
>> had that problem, and if so, what you did to fix it. (I've tried all
>> sorts of things I've found online having to do with the 32bit libs,
>> but no success.)
>>
>> As far as upgrade goes--my paid version 4.13 is quite satisfactory for
>> what I do (retired, hobbyist). It produces what I want for the boards
>> and the notion of no additional cost for eagle upgrades just doesn't
>> offer anything. (In my experience, software upgrades offer the hope
>> of something better, but instead replace of old, known problems with
>> new problems yet to be discovered.) Kicad is attractive, but I can
>> hit the right keys with my eagle 4.1 automatically without
>> looking/thinking so continuing with eagle 4.1 (and not a later
>> version!) is quite desirable.
>>
>> --
>> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
>> https://www.element14.com/community/message/219285
>>
>
>
> Hi Don
>
> Start by downloading the last point version of Eagle V4 (4.16r2) as your
> licence qualifies you for it.
>
> ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/4.16r2/
>
> Then, I suspect there are some missing linux drivers that you will need
> to locate. This has been a problem from time to time.
>
> Others may be able to give you an exact answer.
>
> Failing that search the forum. I suspect E14 is not the place to do
> that. Search eagle central but let google do the heavy lifting when you
> have multpile works you wish to search for. e.g
>
> site:eaglecentral.ca "linux drivers" "missing"
>
> HTH
> Warren
>
I am running on a recent version of linux mint with xfce. Also on 4.x. I
found the windows were transparent. I had to change the desktop setting
(window mangager) to not use compositing. This fixed the transparent
windows.
With compositing enabled.

Paul R. via newsgroup
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