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Future of Eagle [message #166613] Tue, 16 August 2016 11:24 Go to next message
Joop_
Messages: 69
Registered: March 2007
Member
Hello all,

I saw the release notes of Beta version 7.6.2:

Quote:

- Added 'manufacturing.ulp' provided by Autodesk. It supports an
upload of EAGLE drawing files to 'circuits.io' in order to generate
manufacturing data which can then be downloaded. The Ulp is
accessible as an icon in the board editor.
- Added 'ecadio.ulp' provided by Autodesk. It supports an upload
of EAGLE boards to 'ecad.io' in order to generate a 3D PCB for
use in MCAD systems. The Ulp is accessible as an icon in the
board editor.


So, new "features" are not accessible anymore without internet connection??

What happened with "we want standalone programs that can do the job"??

What if I don't want to upload my intellectual property to others?

What about IDF export without any dependency of a vendor?

I'm a bit worried about the direction of Eagle.


Re: Future of Eagle [message #166618 is a reply to message #166613] Tue, 16 August 2016 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 609
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Joop14 wrote:
>
> So, new "features" are not accessible anymore without internet
> connection??
To be fair, the DesignLink stuff that's been in the last several versions of EAGLE uses internet resources I believe? Not that I have used it, it's not at all useful to me in my workflow.
> Joop14 wrote:
>
> What happened with "we want standalone programs that can do the job"??
The export to ECAD.io to generate 3D models of boards for import into the likes of Fusion360 isn't new. It's been available for a while now, they've just added a menu item now Autodesk own EAGLE so that people know about it. It actually works well and my MCAD guy was really excited when he found out about that capability.

I'm not too fussed about circuits.io, I think it's probably a lot more appealing to hobby/maker users rather than professional users. It's not something I see myself using. But it's there and works so I don't have any issues with them simply adding a link to it.

You missed the new feature that doesn't require any external resources. The one where the net names appears in your traces in your PCB. This is a really simple but great feature. Credit where credit is due, this is only a minor point release and a beta at that so having a useful feature added is good. From the details they've given about new features they are targeting for a future release in the blog posts they've made since the acquisition, it doesn't look like they are moving everything to online based services. To me this release is just consolidating what's already there and making it more easily accessible.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Future of Eagle [message #166620 is a reply to message #166618] Tue, 16 August 2016 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joop_
Messages: 69
Registered: March 2007
Member
rachaelp wrote on Tue, 16 August 2016 14:48
You missed the new feature that doesn't require any external resources. The one where the net names appears in your traces in your PCB. This is a really simple but great feature.


I didn't miss it, and I do like it, however, I haven't tried it myself. We are still stuck with V6
because V7 contains a bug that renders schematics and layout very slow on our hardware.
It has been reported to, and confirmed by, Cadsoft. Still, no solution...

Then there's a "general issue" with Eagle & Cadsoft. When you ask for a feature,
they provide you an ulp.
When you complain about broken ulp's , the response is, it's not a part of Eagle...
Still, with every new release of Eagle, they include broken ulp's.
Re: Future of Eagle [message #166622 is a reply to message #166620] Tue, 16 August 2016 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 609
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Joop14 wrote:
>
> I didn't miss it, and I do like it, however, I haven't tried it myself. We are still stuck with V6 because V7 contains a bug that renders schematics and layout very slow on our hardware. It has been reported to, and confirmed by, Cadsoft. Still, no solution...
That's not great, if you are stuck on v6 that's not good at all. I take it a hardware upgrade isn't an option? Not that you should have to fork out for new hardware of course....
> Joop14 wrote:
>
> Then there's a "general issue" with Eagle & Cadsoft. When you ask for a feature, they provide you an ulp. When you complain about broken ulp's , the response is, it's not a part of Eagle... Still, with every new release of Eagle, they include broken ulp's.
I've no issue with them providing ULP's but I agree if it's CADSoft who supply it then they should support it. I guess if it's a 3rd party ULP that they happen to think might help you out for a particular issue then they are under no obligation to provide support for it, but anything that ships with the installer should work and be supported. I do tend to ignore 99% of the built in ULP and 100% of the libs though and just create everything I need myself though so I haven't come across any issues there.

I do agree that there is a lot which should be tidied up and/or removed from EAGLE, broken or out dated ULP and some of the just plain awful free bundled libraries to name but a few but I think over recent years they have been very starved of resources and it's probably not a small task to go through everything with a fine tooth comb and clean it all up. Now they are part of Autodesk they should have a lot more resources so maybe some of these issues will get resolved.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Future of Eagle [message #166623 is a reply to message #166620] Tue, 16 August 2016 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 181
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On 16.08.2016 15:31, Joop wrote:

> Then there's a "general issue" with Eagle & Cadsoft. When you ask for a
> feature,
> they provide you an ulp.

That is soooooo true.

Markus
Re: Future of Eagle [message #166624 is a reply to message #166623] Tue, 16 August 2016 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 609
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> CadSoft Guest wrote:
>
> On 16.08.2016 15:31, Joop wrote:
>
>> Then there's a "general issue" with Eagle & Cadsoft. When you ask for a feature, they provide you an ulp.
>
> That is soooooo true.
>
> Markus
>
There is nothing wrong with providing features with ULP per se, but when CADsoft implement a feature in ULP they have to be prepared to support it, and I think in general they do. The issue Joop14 was raising was the combination of that quoted sentence and his subsequent one regarding support for problems with ULP, which if it's a 3rd party supplied ULP then it's to be expected that it would not be supported with the caveat that if it's shipped with EAGLE as part of the installer I believe they should provide support. That first sentence on its own isn't an issue.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Future of Eagle [message #166625 is a reply to message #166624] Tue, 16 August 2016 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 181
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On 16.08.2016 17:30, rachaelp wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with providing features with ULP per se, but when CADsoft implement a feature in ULP they have to be prepared to support it, and I think in general they do. The issue Joop14 was raising was the combination of that quoted sentence and his subsequent one regarding support for problems with ULP, which if it's a 3rd party supplied ULP then it's to be expected that it would not be supported with the caveat that if it's shipped with EAGLE as part of the installer I believe they should provide support. That first sentence on its own isn't an issue.

I beg CadSoft for years to finally implement a mirrored view of the PCB,
to arrange my silkscreen on the bottom side of the board.

Right now I work with the awful hack of moving the silkscreen on my best
guess and print it out mirrored.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one having designs with top and mirror
silk....

CadSoft's answer: There is an ULP for that. Which BTW changes the whole
board file by really physically mirror each component it into some weird
layers, which of course allows me seeing the board in a mirrored view,
but unfortunately lacks even the most basic undo/redo feature then and
I'm afraid of ruining my whole design by applying this over and over again.

It's just not something that belongs in an ULP. Period.

A real "mirror" view of the board is in my opinion nothing more than
multiplying the coordinates of each primitive of the board by -1 and
shift the viewport, and should be easy to implement.

I guess the labeled track names on the CB are more complicated to
calculate for spacing, from which zoom factor they should be displayed
and so on.

I'm also a programmer, it cannot be that hard. And it would be so useful.

Markus
Re: Future of Eagle [message #166626 is a reply to message #166625] Tue, 16 August 2016 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachaelp
Messages: 609
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> CadSoft Guest wrote:
>
> I beg CadSoft for years to finally implement a mirrored view of the PCB,
> to arrange my silkscreen on the bottom side of the board.
>
> Right now I work with the awful hack of moving the silkscreen on my best
> guess and print it out mirrored.
Yes the mirror view really should be done in the EAGLE GUI without involving ULP to actually mirror everything. Funnily enough I was just doing this very task today, creating assembly drawings for a PCB with components on both sides. I did use the mirror board function which is build into EAGLE's menus but I think just uses an ULP to mirror things at the back end. It actually doesn't do too bad a job and it seems to get the layer swaps relatively sensible. Undo/redo also seems to work fine afterwards. Maybe they've improved it now it's fully integrated into the UI. So my workflow for this involved turning off all but dimension, tPlace, tNames and tDocu then adding in a frame and notes on the document layer. I then printed this to PDF, grouped and cut the frame and notes and then deleted them, mirrored and pasted the frame and notes back, edited them as needed and then print them again. It was less than 5 minutes work in the end to generate my assembly drawings in PDF. Note I saved my frameĀ  and notes on the document layer before doing any mirrors and never saved it after mirroring.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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Re: Future of Eagle [message #166628 is a reply to message #166626] Tue, 16 August 2016 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 181
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On 16.08.2016 19:05, rachaelp wrote:

> Yes the mirror view really should be done in the EAGLE GUI without involving ULP to actually mirror everything.

I have to admit I tested it now that you mentioned it and its not too bad.
Re: Future of Eagle [message #166632 is a reply to message #166618] Wed, 17 August 2016 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chuck Huber
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
On 08/16/2016 08:48 AM, rachaelp wrote:
>
> You missed the new feature that doesn't require any external resources. The one where the net names appears in your traces in your PCB.

Okay... I missed this one. How does one turn this on? I'm using 7.6.0
on linux. I didn't find anything in Help, nor the manual, nor in
Options->Set.

Thanks,
- Chuck
Re: Future of Eagle [message #166633 is a reply to message #166632] Wed, 17 August 2016 13:08 Go to previous message
rachaelp
Messages: 609
Registered: March 2015
Location: UK
Senior Member
> Chuck Huber wrote:
>
> On 08/16/2016 08:48 AM, rachaelp wrote:
>>
>> You missed the new feature that doesn't require any external resources. The one where the net names appears in your traces in your PCB.
>
> Okay... I missed this one. How does one turn this on? I'm using 7.6.0
> on linux. I didn't find anything in Help, nor the manual, nor in
> Options->Set.
>
> Thanks,
> - Chuck
>
Hi Chuck,

It's not available in 7.6.0, it's in the latest 7.6.2 beta. Then in Options -> Set -> Misc there is a new checkbox for 'Display signal names'.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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