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Home » CadSoft Support Forums » eagle.betatest » New icons...
New icons... [message #155886] Wed, 18 June 2014 19:25 Go to next message
Doug Wellington
Messages: 270
Registered: January 2010
Senior Member
I previously replied to the thread, but then thought that it would be
good to have a separate thread just about the new icons.  I hope this
doesn't sound like a complaint or rant, these are just my initial
thoughts.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say.  I'll live
with the new icons if I have to.  I'm curious what everybody else
thinks...

Good:
The new copy command button looks better to me than the old one.
The new ERC button makes sense to me.
I like the triangular error button better than the old round one.

Not so good:
At first, I liked the new stop icon, but the more I look at it, the more
it seems like a "no entry" street sign.  Does that mean I should not go
there and click on it?  Does that take me to a forbidden area of EAGLE?
The new group icon looks more like a drawing tool to me.
The delete icon trash can looks like an oriental water barrel or
lantern.
Rotate, well, that just looks odd.  (Is it an eye or a boob or a
stylized chick head?)  Is that supposed to be an arrow on the
circumference?  It's too small to tell.
The move icon looks more like an explode icon.  (Or an "everybody return
to their corners" icon?)
The ULP button is absolutely unreadable for me.
It took me a bit to realize that the icon that looks like a triple bar
graph is the library button.
The split/bend icon looks like some kind of graph or integration
symbol.  (Are we calculating the area under the line?)
Now that I think of it, the bus and net icons have always bothered me. 
The old ones look like a weird bent toothbrush and the new ones look
like either a three-tooth comb or a SIL header.  Why isn't the net icon
something like a line between two connection points?
In the control panel, I couldn't tell what the green on gray icon was
until I saw that the name ended in ".brd"...

BTW, I've always meant to ask, why aren't the copy and paste icons side
by side in the command button bar?  Also, in the other thread, I asked
about customizing the command button bar.  Should we talk about that
question in this thread or a separate one?

--
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Re: New icons... [message #155891 is a reply to message #155886] Thu, 19 June 2014 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joern Paschedag
Messages: 1456
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Am 18.06.2014 21:25, schrieb Doug Wellington:
> I previously replied to the thread, but then thought that it would be
> good to have a separate thread just about the new icons. I hope this
> doesn't sound like a complaint or rant, these are just my initial
> thoughts. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. I'll live
> with the new icons if I have to. I'm curious what everybody else
> thinks...
>
> Good:
> The new copy command button looks better to me than the old one.
> The new ERC button makes sense to me.
> I like the triangular error button better than the old round one.
>
> Not so good:
> At first, I liked the new stop icon, but the more I look at it, the more
> it seems like a "no entry" street sign. Does that mean I should not go
> there and click on it? Does that take me to a forbidden area of EAGLE?
> The new group icon looks more like a drawing tool to me.
> The delete icon trash can looks like an oriental water barrel or
> lantern.
> Rotate, well, that just looks odd. (Is it an eye or a boob or a
> stylized chick head?) Is that supposed to be an arrow on the
> circumference? It's too small to tell.
> The move icon looks more like an explode icon. (Or an "everybody return
> to their corners" icon?)
> The ULP button is absolutely unreadable for me.
> It took me a bit to realize that the icon that looks like a triple bar
> graph is the library button.
> The split/bend icon looks like some kind of graph or integration
> symbol. (Are we calculating the area under the line?)
> Now that I think of it, the bus and net icons have always bothered me.
> The old ones look like a weird bent toothbrush and the new ones look
> like either a three-tooth comb or a SIL header. Why isn't the net icon
> something like a line between two connection points?
> In the control panel, I couldn't tell what the green on gray icon was
> until I saw that the name ended in ".brd"...
>
> BTW, I've always meant to ask, why aren't the copy and paste icons side
> by side in the command button bar? Also, in the other thread, I asked
> about customizing the command button bar. Should we talk about that
> question in this thread or a separate one?
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> http://www.element14.com/community/message/117207
>

Hi Doug,
I think it's good that you made up a new thread about icons.

As I wrote somewhere else:"Fire the designer".
I would bet that the designer worked on a pad creating the icons, but
I'm sitting at a distance of about 70 centimetres from the screen and
all I see is grey on grey.

Why not the same fat black icon for polygon like rectangle?
Why the same symbols for module and port or bus and net with just a
nuance change in colour?
The stop symbol appears to me like a forbidden entrance...

Anyway the icons look to me as an improvement for the worse.
Unfortunately.

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
Re: New icons... [message #155892 is a reply to message #155891] Thu, 19 June 2014 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Fecht
Messages: 118
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member
Joern Paschedag schrieb:

> Hi Doug,
> I think it's good that you made up a new thread about icons.
>
> As I wrote somewhere else:"Fire the designer".
> I would bet that the designer worked on a pad creating the icons, but
> I'm sitting at a distance of about 70 centimetres from the screen and
> all I see is grey on grey.

The gray on gray design is totaly "in" at the time. Look at ebay or the
new Microsoft Office. I hope this period is not so long.

The only reason to change the icons is: Make it bigger!!!111

In some old software it is possible to set big icons.
I'm missing this in eagle for a long time.

Andreas
Re: New icons... [message #155893 is a reply to message #155891] Thu, 19 June 2014 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rk
Messages: 386
Registered: February 2005
Senior Member
Am 19.06.2014 08:58, schrieb Joern Paschedag:
> As I wrote somewhere else:"Fire the designer".

This was clearly not a designer's work. This was somebody completely
unexperienced, never doing something like this before.
Re: New icons... [message #155894 is a reply to message #155893] Thu, 19 June 2014 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Fecht
Messages: 118
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member
René König schrieb:
> Am 19.06.2014 08:58, schrieb Joern Paschedag:
>> As I wrote somewhere else:"Fire the designer".
>
> This was clearly not a designer's work. This was somebody completely
> unexperienced, never doing something like this before.
>

I think the old icons were from a technician (probably Mr. Schmidinger)
and the new versions are from a designer ;-)

Andreas
Re: New icons... [message #155901 is a reply to message #155894] Thu, 19 June 2014 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doug Wellington
Messages: 270
Registered: January 2010
Senior Member
> Andreas wrote:
>
> I think the old icons were from a technician (probably Mr.
> Schmidinger) and the new versions are from a designer

Yes, I'm guessing that if this was a product for a right-brained artist
type, say a GIMP or Inkscape user, the new icons would be awesome, but
since this is a product for left-brained engineer types, the changed
icons are somewhat less than optimal...

--
To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
http://www.element14.com/community/message/117333
Re: New icons... [message #155916 is a reply to message #155886] Fri, 20 June 2014 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Spermann
Messages: 540
Registered: August 2010
Senior Member
Hi,
On 06/18/14 21:25, Doug Wellington wrote:
> I previously replied to the thread, but then thought that it would be
> good to have a separate thread just about the new icons. I hope this
> doesn't sound like a complaint or rant, these are just my initial
> thoughts. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. I'll live
> with the new icons if I have to. I'm curious what everybody else
> thinks...
>
> Good:
> The new copy command button looks better to me than the old one.
> The new ERC button makes sense to me.
> I like the triangular error button better than the old round one.
>
> Not so good:
> At first, I liked the new stop icon, but the more I look at it, the more
> it seems like a "no entry" street sign. Does that mean I should not go
> there and click on it? Does that take me to a forbidden area of EAGLE?
> The new group icon looks more like a drawing tool to me.
> The delete icon trash can looks like an oriental water barrel or
> lantern.
> Rotate, well, that just looks odd. (Is it an eye or a boob or a
> stylized chick head?) Is that supposed to be an arrow on the
> circumference? It's too small to tell.
> The move icon looks more like an explode icon. (Or an "everybody return
> to their corners" icon?)
> The ULP button is absolutely unreadable for me.
> It took me a bit to realize that the icon that looks like a triple bar
> graph is the library button.
> The split/bend icon looks like some kind of graph or integration
> symbol. (Are we calculating the area under the line?)
> Now that I think of it, the bus and net icons have always bothered me.
> The old ones look like a weird bent toothbrush and the new ones look
> like either a three-tooth comb or a SIL header. Why isn't the net icon
> something like a line between two connection points?
> In the control panel, I couldn't tell what the green on gray icon was
> until I saw that the name ended in ".brd"...
good, that we presented these new icons in first beta, not later...
We are not sure yet how to react but switching back to the old ones
and keeping some of the new ones considered good is the best solution.
The ones to keep need to be adapted to the old style of course
(like sharp 1 pixel lines instead of unsharp 2 pixel lines).

Regards,
Walter Spermann
>
> BTW, I've always meant to ask, why aren't the copy and paste icons side
> by side in the command button bar? Also, in the other thread, I asked
> about customizing the command button bar. Should we talk about that
> question in this thread or a separate one?
>
> --
> To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
> http://www.element14.com/community/message/117207


--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Spermann
Lead Developer
CadSoft Computer GmbH
Pleidolfweg 15
84568 Pleiskirchen
Tel.: 08635/6989-10
www.cadsoft.de
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Geschäftsführer: Thomas Liratsch
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Re: New icons... [message #155924 is a reply to message #155891] Fri, 20 June 2014 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Markus Rudolf
Messages: 181
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Look horrible. I'm using EAGLE for 15 years now, and I think its better
to go back to the old ones. Only point would be if they are vector icons
and could be scaled for 4K displays for instance.

Markus
Re: New icons... [message #155925 is a reply to message #155886] Fri, 20 June 2014 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ein User
Messages: 58
Registered: September 2009
Member
Hi there,

I just installed the latest beta for evaluation purposes. I also have to
agree, that the new icons look not so nice. I installed it inside a
64Bits Windows 7 machine with gray system UI (like Win2k) and find the
newer light icons not well to see.
The new icons inside the control panel look like someone started to
design in 256x256px size and scaled it down.
What is that new LBR-icon: a view from inside a non illuminated house
out of a window towards a sunrise? Paste icon = sun and planet? ULP
Icons with light orange on light gray? Pain in the eyes. BRD icon too,
green on light gray. The folder icons inside the control panels are too
far way off the default windows ones and hard to distinguish between the
project ones (which were red in older versions). As already mentioned,
there are some confusing new symbols for standard functions.
What is the new icon on the top left corner of the control panel? A
jumping red fish or the silhouette of an eagle?
I understand that cadsoft wants to sell new products wit some direct
visible new features (like new UI), but experienced users don't want new
UIs, they want maybe the extra functions and bug fixes.
But it could be worse. Better don't think about EAGLE with ribbon UI
like MS Office 2007+ without having a bucket next to you for your
stomach contents ;)
The new icon theme should be at least optional and switchable in the UI
options dialog. Upgraders might want to keep it as it is. Newbs may
consider new icons. :)
Re: New icons... [message #155969 is a reply to message #155893] Tue, 24 June 2014 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CadSoft Support
Messages: 542
Registered: September 2006
Senior Member
Am 19.06.2014 12:09, schrieb René König:
> Am 19.06.2014 08:58, schrieb Joern Paschedag:
>> As I wrote somewhere else:"Fire the designer".
>
> This was clearly not a designer's work. This was somebody completely
> unexperienced, never doing something like this before.
>


That's true. The designer of the icons has clearly only a rough
knowledge of electronics. But it was intended to do it this way.


--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards
Richard Hammerl
CadSoft Support -- hotline@cadsoft.de
FAQ: http://www.cadsoft.de/training/faq/
Re: New icons... [message #155970 is a reply to message #155924] Tue, 24 June 2014 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CadSoft Support
Messages: 542
Registered: September 2006
Senior Member
Am 20.06.2014 15:49, schrieb Markus Rudolf:
> Look horrible. I'm using EAGLE for 15 years now, and I think its better
> to go back to the old ones. Only point would be if they are vector icons
> and could be scaled for 4K displays for instance.
>
> Markus

This might be an option for future releases....
As a long time user I can understand that the new icons are
something you have to get used to. As an EAGLE beginner it would
certainly be easier.

--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards
Richard Hammerl
CadSoft Support -- hotline@cadsoft.de
FAQ: http://www.cadsoft.de/training/faq/
Re: New icons... [message #155971 is a reply to message #155925] Tue, 24 June 2014 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CadSoft Support
Messages: 542
Registered: September 2006
Senior Member
Hi,

I would like to comment your items in order to try to get a
good discussion about the icons. Basically I think they are
not too bad although I am used to the old styles since its
introduction.



Am 20.06.2014 17:44, schrieb Ein User:
> Hi there,
>
> I just installed the latest beta for evaluation purposes. I also have to
> agree, that the new icons look not so nice. I installed it inside a
> 64Bits Windows 7 machine with gray system UI (like Win2k) and find the
> newer light icons not well to see.
> The new icons inside the control panel look like someone started to
> design in 256x256px size and scaled it down.
> What is that new LBR-icon: a view from inside a non illuminated house
> out of a window towards a sunrise?

It's the back of three folders, the place where your components
are stored. ;-)


Paste icon = sun and planet?

I like your interpretation. :-)
I think the big yellow one represents a kind of cloud (the paste
buffer) where you can take things out.


ULP
> Icons with light orange on light gray? Pain in the eyes. BRD icon too,
> green on light gray.
The colors should be less bright, I agree.


The folder icons inside the control panels are too
> far way off the default windows ones and hard to distinguish between the
> project ones (which were red in older versions).

A bit more of colors? Yellow and red again?


As already mentioned,
> there are some confusing new symbols for standard functions.
> What is the new icon on the top left corner of the control panel? A
> jumping red fish or the silhouette of an eagle?

That's the shape of an EAGLE in a circle.....

> I understand that cadsoft wants to sell new products wit some direct
> visible new features (like new UI), but experienced users don't want new
> UIs, they want maybe the extra functions and bug fixes.
> But it could be worse. Better don't think about EAGLE with ribbon UI
> like MS Office 2007+ without having a bucket next to you for your
> stomach contents ;)

The reason why we change the icon style is permanent user requests.
It's clear that every change will result in positive and negative
feedback. It's hard to find the balance here.

> The new icon theme should be at least optional and switchable in the UI
> options dialog. Upgraders might want to keep it as it is. Newbs may
> consider new icons. :)

Well, might be an option, if there would be negative feedback only.


--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards
Richard Hammerl
CadSoft Support -- hotline@cadsoft.de
FAQ: http://www.cadsoft.de/training/faq/
Re: New icons... [message #155972 is a reply to message #155886] Tue, 24 June 2014 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lorenz
Messages: 650
Registered: December 2006
Senior Member
I've no big problems with the changed icons per se, but ...

.... I've a really big problem with the gray-on-gray, blurred and
contrastless finish.
--

Lorenz
Re: New icons... [message #155973 is a reply to message #155969] Tue, 24 June 2014 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rk
Messages: 386
Registered: February 2005
Senior Member
Am 24.06.2014 11:14, schrieb Richard Hammerl:
> That's true. The designer of the icons has clearly only a rough
> knowledge of electronics. But it was intended to do it this way.

There is absolutely no need for the icon "designer" having knowledge of
electronics. But if the icon "designer" never ever designed an icon
before, you'll get icons like these.
Re: New icons... [message #155974 is a reply to message #155971] Tue, 24 June 2014 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joern Paschedag
Messages: 1456
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Am 24.06.2014 11:45, schrieb Richard Hammerl:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to comment your items in order to try to get a
> good discussion about the icons. Basically I think they are
> not too bad although I am used to the old styles since its
> introduction.
>
>
>
> Am 20.06.2014 17:44, schrieb Ein User:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I just installed the latest beta for evaluation purposes. I also have to
>> agree, that the new icons look not so nice. I installed it inside a
>> 64Bits Windows 7 machine with gray system UI (like Win2k) and find the
>> newer light icons not well to see.
>> The new icons inside the control panel look like someone started to
>> design in 256x256px size and scaled it down.
>> What is that new LBR-icon: a view from inside a non illuminated house
>> out of a window towards a sunrise?
>
> It's the back of three folders, the place where your components
> are stored. ;-)
>
>
> Paste icon = sun and planet?
>
> I like your interpretation. :-)
> I think the big yellow one represents a kind of cloud (the paste
> buffer) where you can take things out.
>
>
> ULP
>> Icons with light orange on light gray? Pain in the eyes. BRD icon too,
>> green on light gray.
> The colors should be less bright, I agree.
>
>
> The folder icons inside the control panels are too
>> far way off the default windows ones and hard to distinguish between the
>> project ones (which were red in older versions).
>
> A bit more of colors? Yellow and red again?
>
>
> As already mentioned,
>> there are some confusing new symbols for standard functions.
>> What is the new icon on the top left corner of the control panel? A
>> jumping red fish or the silhouette of an eagle?
>
> That's the shape of an EAGLE in a circle.....
>
>> I understand that cadsoft wants to sell new products wit some direct
>> visible new features (like new UI), but experienced users don't want new
>> UIs, they want maybe the extra functions and bug fixes.
>> But it could be worse. Better don't think about EAGLE with ribbon UI
>> like MS Office 2007+ without having a bucket next to you for your
>> stomach contents ;)
>
> The reason why we change the icon style is permanent user requests.

I'm sorry, maybe I missed something here.
Permanent user requests?? I haven't heard complains about that in ages.


> It's clear that every change will result in positive and negative
> feedback. It's hard to find the balance here.
>
>> The new icon theme should be at least optional and switchable in the UI
>> options dialog. Upgraders might want to keep it as it is. Newbs may
>> consider new icons. :)
>
> Well, might be an option, if there would be negative feedback only.
>
>


--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
Re: New icons... [message #155978 is a reply to message #155970] Tue, 24 June 2014 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Fecht
Messages: 118
Registered: November 2004
Senior Member
Richard Hammerl schrieb:

> This might be an option for future releases....
> As a long time user I can understand that the new icons are
> something you have to get used to. As an EAGLE beginner it would
> certainly be easier.
>

With the increasing screen resolution the icons are became smaller and
smaller. The only right way to change anything about the icons is:

Make it bigger!!!111

Andreas
Re: New icons... [message #155982 is a reply to message #155971] Tue, 24 June 2014 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doug Wellington
Messages: 270
Registered: January 2010
Senior Member
> Richard Hammerl wrote:
>
> The reason why we change the icon style is permanent user requests.
>
> It's clear that every change will result in positive and negative
>
> feedback. It's hard to find the balance here.

Permanent user requests?  This is the first time I've heard about this. 
(Of course, I haven't been around a long time.)  Aren't there more
important things to fix first though?

>> The new icon theme should be at least optional and switchable in the
>> UI
>>
>> options dialog. Upgraders might want to keep it as it is. Newbs
>> may
>>
>> consider new icons.
>
>
>
> Well, might be an option, if there would be negative feedback only.

That doesn't sound good.  Have you received any positive feedback on the
new icons?  So far I have only seen negative or neutral (fatalistic -
"if we have to") feedback.

What about making EAGLE skinnable?  I think that would be a better long
term solution; it would make customization easier and you could leverage
user investment.  I for one would love to be able to make my own theme! 
You're using QT, right?  It's easy to do with QT...

--
To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
http://www.element14.com/community/message/118274
icon8.gif  Aw: Re: New icons... [message #156155 is a reply to message #155982] Sun, 06 July 2014 21:12 Go to previous message
noshky
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2012
Junior Member
Oh oh oh...
i can only agree to almost everybody before.

These icons can no longer considered to be icons. I haven't seen anything so ugly in professional software in 20 years. This is so far off anything that has ever been standard design, and so much further away from what is considered standard design nowadays.

How could somebody possibly "create" something like that?

Well, i could. Because i am not a graphical designer or anything near it. So it is just good for me and the humanity, that i be kept away from graphic designing stuff. And so should the person, who have committed this "crime".

Even though i'm not a graphical designer, this is really not bearable. This has to be considered as a "graphical crime", everybody will easily have to agree to this.
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